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Post by raliverpool on Mar 6, 2019 23:09:19 GMT 1
I'm watching the Leaving Neverland Part 1 of 2 documentary now on Channel 4 (Part 2 on tomorrow night), and my goodness me even with clearly a good 25 minutes of the most contentious stuff cut from the original 4 Hour 1 minute documentary from the threat of Michael Jackson's estate lawyers to Channel 4 this is pretty detailed, pretty grim stuff.
Whilst in the past you could except the argument that MJ was Mad, and a Peter Pan asexual manchild sad, rather than a manipulative sicko Bad. It is fairly clear from the graphic, detailed evidence that MJ was Jimmy Savile with better choreography; and Gary Glitter with better songs.
Hence, why it is very easy to see why Radio 2 & several other Radio & Music Video outlets have quietly dropped MJ's back catalogue from their oldies airplay programming.
Is anyone else watching this (whilst Manchester Utd had their Thriller of a win in Paris), and what are your thoughts. Do you agree or disagree that he should be treated the same as Jimmy Savile; Gary Glitter; etc or do you think this is a Dangerous road to travel on to make him History; or do you think the self proclaimed "King Of Pop" influence on late 20th Century pop culture is too Invincible to take him Off The Wall?
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on Mar 6, 2019 23:25:22 GMT 1
I think it's worse than flashing your bits on a webcam to a 15 year old which is a career ender
I'm watching it on +1 so I'm only 20 mins in so pretty tame so far
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Roo.
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Post by Roo. on Mar 6, 2019 23:37:11 GMT 1
I don’t think, unless he’s removed from streaming services and the like, that it’s possible to lose his influence on pop culture.
Even now, the likes of Gary Glitter and Lostprophets have over 100,000 monthly Spotify listeners, and they were never close to his level of fame.
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Robbie
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*Funky!*
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Post by Robbie on Mar 6, 2019 23:53:26 GMT 1
I was watching the Man Utd game and forgot about this programme. I doubt I would have watched it anyway. I'd imagine the claims in the programme are similar to what has been said before. For Gary Glitter he is paying for his crimes against children as he is currently in prison. JS was just an odious man while alive and was never once taken to court while alive although it appears that he was spoken to by the police a handful of times. Michael Jackson was taken to court and was found not guilty. Is he guilty? I don't know but it doesn't help his cause that he was sleeping in the same bed as young boys. Even if nothing did happen that is just a no-no. It's wrong on many levels.
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on Mar 7, 2019 0:02:12 GMT 1
You should watch it Robbie
R Kelly is another one that got away with it for 20+ years
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Post by smokeyb on Mar 7, 2019 0:10:13 GMT 1
Watching it now, and to me the boys mother's seem to allow this to happen, they didn't ask any questions at the time.
Would you let your 7 year old sleep in the bed of a strange man! These parents did!
He was always a strange person, and played the innocent boy/man image,but it's looking like there was a lot more going on,I can understand why his family are trying to defend him, but they were not living with him, so I don't think they knew what was really going on in private.
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SheriffFatman
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Been spending most our lives living in the Cheshire countryside
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Post by SheriffFatman on Mar 7, 2019 13:51:16 GMT 1
I would never normally watch something like this, but I am travelling with work and flicking through the channels in the hotel last night, and chanced on this. It was proper gripping, harrowing stuff to see that grown man giving great detail regarding the physical abuse he says he was the victim of. He was very clear and it is hard to imagine he was lying, and this was not vague "sleeping in the same bed" stuff which sounds odd but not criminal, it was explicit testimony of the sexual abuse of a 7 year old boy.
I have never been Jackson's biggest fan or anything, but I've always thought at his best he released some of the greatest pop music released in my lifetime (although he undoubtedly did some rubbish too). The first gig I ever went to, aged 11, was the Bad tour at Milton Keynes Bowl in September 1988. I'm glad now I was near the back.
It's hard to imagine erasing that music from history, it seems as much part of my personal history as it is part of popular culture. If the stuff the guy on the TV last night was saying is true though erasing it does seem like the right thing to do. What a horrible situation.
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Post by greendemon on Mar 7, 2019 15:28:14 GMT 1
I'm so conflicted about this. I haven't seen the documentary yet but I ought to.
I can't remember if I have told people on here this, but when I was around 8 years old I appeared on stage with Michael Jackson in one of his concerts near my school. There were a few of us (around 10) - his staff came to our school one afternoon and hand-picked a few kids to roam around on stage during "Earth Song" and "Heal the World". I never actually met the guy (though some of the kids did), but that whole experience had a huge impact on me and my appreciation of his music, and unsurprisingly I grew up loving it.
On one level it's really hard to square that with the horrifying things that are now being said (it should be added, after he's no longer here to defend himself)... But on the other hand, Michael Jackson clearly thought nothing of wanting to surround himself with small children on stage, and I was a part of that...
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on Mar 7, 2019 15:50:09 GMT 1
I always found it a bit weird back in the day that if he was "innocent" and the only way to prove his innocence once and for all was through with the court case, the rumours and accusations had already blighted his career, he was branded guilty anyway yet instead of proving his innocence in court when his accusers made a case against him he settled out of court for 10m to silence his accusers
Maybe he got bad advice from people making money from him worried him being a weird and obsessed with kids would end his career if it went to trial or maybe he had something darker to hide... who knows
But there are plenty of alleged victims damn sure what he did to them who aren't doing it for the money, why would they do this to a man who showed them nothing but love, their hero! if it wasn't true, there are millions of child molesters in theworld, maybe 10s or 100s of million, maybe he was one, maybe he wasn't, I don't think his art is tarnished by this, it's his music people like, he is dead, you cant punish a corpse and there is a chance people are just taking advantage of an innocent man who was a bit weird, it happens.
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Post by Whitneyfan on Mar 7, 2019 16:18:30 GMT 1
I read a lot of the court transcripts during his trial and the family who were accusing him were absolutely ripped to shreds. It was laughable, and there's no way they were genuine in any way or form... they had previously tried to extort money out of other celebrities for God sake.
These 2 boys were among several who were called upon to testify in MJ's defence, which they did. Why on earth would let those ones stand up in court, knowing that they could easily fall apart under cross-examination? They're only doing this documentary now because their claims were thrown out of court when they suddenly realised they had been abused after all this time. It's just ridiculous.
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Post by raliverpool on Mar 7, 2019 20:42:33 GMT 1
You should watch it Robbie R Kelly is another one that got away with it for 20+ years The thing is Daz, as a result of the equivalent 6 hour Surviving R. Kelly documentary reopening the "You Are Not Alone" songwriter's history of alleged sexual abuse of women, a number of whom were under the legal age. The office of Cook County, Illinois, State's Attorney Kim Foxx said in January 2019 that they had received numerous new calls alleging sexual abuse by R. Kelly and that it was investigating the claims.
As a result on February 22nd 2019, Robert Kelly was formally charged with 10 counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse as a result.
Sadly Robert Kelly's good friend who had a preference for pre-pubescent males is no longer alive to "face the music". Which is a pity as a result of the Leaving Neverland documentary film which had its premiere at the 2019 Sundance Film Festival on January 25th 2019. According to the Los Angeles Police Department, as of March 4th 2019, they have said they have received 8 hither to unknown (to the existing 4 (Chandler, Arvizo, Robson, Safechuck)) allegations of child abuse by the deceased "King Of Pop"; and in addition three members of staff from Neverland ranch have come forward to make similar witness allegations (spanning between the years 1984-2003). Since Monday, a New Zealander, and a German have come forward to media claiming they too were abused by MJ.
I wish Michael Jackson was alive to face a trial with hopefully this time more than sufficient evidence to put him away to see him incarcerated for the rest of his life.
As for those of you who have not seen the Leaving Neverland documentary, it holds an approval rating of 97% based on 65 reviews; whilst on Metacritic it has a rated average of 85% based on 20 reviews.
If you have not seen the documentary, the reviews are pretty damning ..... of Michael Jackson:
Leaving Neverland review: Michael Jackson told us he was bad; he was evil
Leaving Neverland review – astonishing accounts of Michael Jackson's sexual abuse
Michael Jackson Leaving Neverland: Graphic reality of child sex abuse laid bare
As for those of you who think Michael Jackson was innocent, gullible, & easily manipulated. All I can say is wake up.
Would a decent human being in 1984 double cross a close friend Paul McCartney, who after extracting the information of how much Paul McCartney & John Lennon's widow Yoko Ono were bidding for the Lennon & McCartney Beatles songbook successfully bid $6.5 million more dollars (over the $5 million outsider fresh hold) to grab their publishing?
Would a decent human being hire the former high-profile Los Angeles private investigator, known as a Hollywood fixer Anthony Pellicano between 1992 & 2004 to illegally wiretap & intimidate the families of those who were due to give evidence against Michael Jackson, so resulting in a number of the alleged up to 23 different families go for the easy option of settling out of court with a sizeable financial settlement? In 2008 Pellicano was sentenced to 15 years in federal prison for 78 various charges involving wiretapping, racketeering, wire fraud, and computer fraud.
Thanks to Ricky Gervais & Jonathan Ross reminding me of the late George Michael whom was arguably a victim of the monumental power and influence Michael Jackson held. Whom in his final interview from 2016 which was broadcast on Radio 2 in 2017 over 2 hours with Kirsty Young in the year following his death, he revealed that he went to Neverland Ranch in 1989 at the suggestion of his Epic (Sony) record label to record a duet with Michael Jackson. This was of course shortly after his Faith album contained 4 USA #1 hits. However, George quickly went off the idea as he freaked out of the sight of MJ being overtly familiar with strangers children. He then told the then Head of Sony Tommy Mottola that he would not do a duet with MJ, and gave that exact example as the reason why. He then alleged that the future husband of Mariah Carey went completely nuts at him. (He later refused to work with R. Kelly in the late 1990s when working on his aborted Trojan Souls duets album). And of course, we all know how George Michael relationship with Sony music went sour from the Listen Without Prejudice album onwards.... One can't help but wonder if that whole incident at Neverland demoralised George Michael to adversely impact on his mental well being and cause his own personal decline and untimely demise..
If he had the power and influence to manipulate a business savvy battle hardened Beatle; and put a torpedo in the career of the best British pop singer/songwriter of the 1980s, then it does not take much to imagine how he can manipulate, groom, and dupe male pre teens and their starstruck families ...... does it.
If some of you can get off to listening to Billie Jean, Thriller (sadly the Monkey Dust 3rd 2005 series sketch of the Paedofinder General singing "Cause your a Paedo, Paedophile over a tune that was remarkable similar to the 1982 title track; with the Vincent Price "rap" sung by a follower who looked and sounded remarkably similar to Sir Jimmy Savile has long since been removed from youtube, vimeo; etc. No doubt that is the work of MJ estate or Sony records) with the mental image of Michael Jackson masturbating over the bottom and backsides of young 12 year olds then so be it. I can't. As I think he is a vile repulsive human being. May he rot in hell.
At least Glitter has been punished for his crimes whilst he is alive. Those who covered up for MJ whilst he was alive are still around to profit from it. Whilst his fans are proving once and for all they are worse than Belibers; Madonna Bees; Little Monsters; Swifties; Arianators; etc put together.
As far as I'm concerned if you now stream, or purchase a Sony MJ track then you are showing support to a paedophile; and sticking two fingers up at his victims.
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TheThorne
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Post by TheThorne on Mar 7, 2019 23:37:40 GMT 1
But most of this was known.months and years ago. I knew about the George Michael Incident for example.
Has this documentary changed you so much that you went from entering "Billie Jean' to the 80s game but you didn't get it, what would you have done if you did? As you reacted so fiercely yesterday.
I just don't get this change over a few weeks.
But yes thus is difficult , I have never played a LostProphets song since the conviction, which annoys me as I have all their albums and it's a shame on the rest of the band that they get no revenue.
But I just can't do the same for MJ, la la la I'm not listening...and I am not even a fan. His musical legacy is too important to be airbrushed out of history.
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on Mar 8, 2019 0:17:09 GMT 1
The time to have this reaction was 25 years ago and if a morale stand was to be made it should've been then. 2019 it's a bit late to be outraged imo, he is dead, the kids parents should've been prosecuted for neglect if any of this is true, there is a huge disconnect between a deceased person who allegedly did this and the music, some people just don't connect the two and it's not like he benefits from a Spotify plays beyond the grave anyway, if he did any of this he was obviously severely mentally ill and needed help, he was a victim of a different kind of child abuse, whilst he needed locking up if these interviews are true it should've been in a mental unit but it doesn't add up for me. There is still zero proof
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Post by lewis17 on Mar 9, 2019 11:26:21 GMT 1
I have avoided opening this thread for a few days but, unable to resist taking a quick peek, I have to say I’m not in the least bit surprised by all the ‘it’s on TV so it must be true’ negativity surrounding Finding Neverland.
Before you judge Michael, do your research: Facts don’t lie, people do.
Of course, if you want to view Michael Jackson as a paedophile, you will. It’s easy to do. But please, don’t blindly believe everything you see on TV or read in the media.
Fact: The FBI secretly investigated Michael Jackson for four years, tracking his whereabouts, his computers, phone calls, etc. and released a 300+ page file completely vindicating him, stating there was absolutely nothing to even remotely suggest he was an abuser … the general public and media completely ignored it. Yet two admitted liars and perjurers (one of which who even refers to himself as a ‘master of deception’) can come out with a completely one-sided, sensationalist story which contains literally no evidence whatsoever and is full of inconsistencies, and a large majority of the public doesn’t even question it.
Fact: The jurors who found Michael Jackson not guilty in his 2005 trial agree with the FBI. Juror Paulina Coccoz said: ‘It was pretty obvious there was no molestation done ... it was pretty obvious that there were ulterior motives on behalf of the family. And the mother, she orchestrated the whole thing ... there wasn’t a shred of evidence’. Just because a story is graphic and disturbing doesn’t make it factual.
Fact: Brett Barnes is threatening to sue HBO over Finding Neverland, in which Wade claims that he replaced Brett as an abused victim and confirmed that Brett was abused by Michael Jackson using his image and name. “Not only do we have to deal with these lies,” Brett stated, “but we’ve also got to deal with people perpetuating these lies. The fact that they fail to do the small amount of research it takes to prove these are lies, by choice or not, makes it even worse.” Brett testified at Michael Jackson’s criminal trial in 2005 — along with Macaulay Culkin — that he was never sexually abused by Michael and he hasn’t changed his account since. Brett also tweeted about the MJ allegations in January, calling them “lies.” Brett says he wants nothing to do with the film, does not give HBO his consent to use his image and likeness and wants all references to him axed … He also still insists that Michael Jackson is INNOCENT!
Fact: The Los Angeles Police Department stated that Michael Jackson should be presumed to be innocent. Yet despite a jury finding him not guilty on every single charge against him, despite the Los Angeles Department of Children and Family Services twice investigating and clearing him of wrongdoing, despite the FBI conducting a very thorough investigation in which no evidence of wrongdoing was found, and despite the cash grab lawsuits of his posthumous accusers being tossed out of court, the court of public opinion may sadly be what defines Michael’s legacy for many people.
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Post by lewis17 on Mar 9, 2019 11:27:23 GMT 1
Here's an open letter posted on Facebook a few days ago by a German family who knew MJ very well: www.facebook.com/nik.tooke/p...56305157767276“An Open Letter From the Schleiter Family Hi, we are Franziska, Anton, Marlies and Wolfgang – brother and sister and ourparents. We were close friends with Michael Jackson from childhood on. What weare about to say comes out of a place of great love and appreciation. If youwould like to quote this text, please do not take it out of context and alwayslink back to this page. We won‘t be giving any interviews to the press. Thankyou for understanding. This is all we have to say: 04.03.2019 Enough is Enough. In 1995 we first met Michael at a German TV Show. That day, something that we could never have imagined in our wildest dreams happened. It was the start of a unique friendship. A friendship so normal yet so unusual and magical. One that would last until the very last day of Michael‘s life and will continue for ever in our hearts. From the beginning we knew that what we were privileged to experience, was a treasure worth protecting. Especially regarding the world we live in, with media that wants to make up stories that sell, rather than seeking the truth and people who want to read shocking headlines rather than knowing the truth. Over the years we were offered over a quarter million of Euros for interviews, but no money in the world could ever materialize a value that would stand above the value of our memories with Michael. This is the reason why we have never spoken a word publicly about our friendship. Something has changed our mind about speaking up lately. The utter shocking news of a new documentary that would portray Michael once again as a child molester. Even writing this sentence, putting his name and that word together, makes us feel sick to our stomach. Michael never behaved inappropriately towards us and we neither witnessed nor suspected him doing it to someone else ever. We have been angry with the public treatment of Michael many times in the past, but we chose to stay silent - hoping the truth to run marathons and protecting Michael and his privacy. And we had good reason to be angry, for example when Anton was falsely portrayed in a German tabloid as having a homosexual affair with Michael. We witnessed first hand how ugly the media can be and how they make up most terrible lies just to have a story. When our father denied to talk to an inquiring journalist on the phone, the story read something like "Father refuses to defend Michael". Unfortunately scandals sell much better than anything else. Spending a lot of time with Michael, we experienced two-faced people more than once. When Michael was in the room, they acted most charming with seemingly good intentions, but once he turned his cheek they would become rude and you could sense that their intentions were not that good after all. In front of us, they didn‘t care showing their real face. We were only the shy German family in the background, not worth paying attention to. But we were observing and slowly but surely we started to get a glance at the often difficult world Michael was living in. It was a world in which it was so very difficult to trust. And yet Michael was kind to everybody he would meet and believed in the good so strongly. Some would call it naiv, to us it was just one of his character traits that made us look up to him. Giving everybody a chance, even if you've been fooled by people over and over, really is remarkable. And it makes us even more sad to know, that many took and still take advantage of this. Being around Michael made us realize that everybody wanted a piece of him. We often wondered why, from all people, he would let us into his circle of trusted friends. Now we understand it was maybe the fact that we didn't want anything from him and simply enjoyed being together. When he offered to pay for our education, our parents denied because it was too much of a gift. It was a no brainer for us then, but looking back on it now, it was probably something that Michael didn't experience often. Those who wanted a piece of his fame or his money did not care about Michael as a person or about his kind heart and uplifting spirit. It is truly a shame and we almost feel bad for those people in a way, because blinded by money, they probably didn't realize that they just had the honor to meet a person that has a uniqueness about him that the world would only witness every other century. His music, his message, his creative and genius mind was truly one of a kind. While our friendship with Michael was very normal in a sense that we hung out, chatted on the phone, went to the movies just like friends do, it was also magical in the sense that Michael had a warmth about him that was captivating. You would immediately feel comfortable and safe around him. He was one of the most humble persons we've ever met, always putting the well being of others over his own. There was never a single moment of doubt of his pure heart and intentions, which also led our parents to allow us to travel alone with Michael. Though we‘re speaking up today, we still want to protect and respect our personal stories. What we can say though, is that each and every time we had to say good bye to Michael, we all cried because we knew how much we would miss him. The times we spent together were the most fun. And while Michael was always up for a good water balloon fight, he was also a great mentor, teaching us about life and sharing his incredible knowledge. We can remember how excited he was to tell us about the Wright brothers when he learnt that we had never heard of them. He gave us books and movies of stories we could learn from and he was eager for us to develop our talents. We understand that our story can only put a small piece of the puzzle together for those who are still in doubt of what to believe about Michael Jackson. To those who still doubt that he was innocent, we can only plea to simply do your own research. And if the fact that Michael had to endure every possible raid of privacy in his trial in 2005 and still was found NOT GUILTY on ALL CHARGES, if this fact is still not enough for you, then maybe you can simply listen to his music. Meeting many of his fans over the years, we were astounded how much they “got him“ as a person, even though they never personally met him. Michael and his fans had a unique friendship of their own. He trusted them and it is no wonder why they continue to trust in his good heart. They simply listened to his music and to his words. If you listen closely you‘d know all of his stories and you‘d know what kind of person he was. You would know that his mission for his time on earth was not only to bring happiness in form of melodies and rhythm but also to change the world to the better. Boy, how he could inspire us to be our best selves and to show more love and respect to each other! Yet people choose to blow up lies that threaten to overshadow all of the greatness this man has brought. Enough is enough. Today we speak up for Michael because he deserves better and because he was the best friend we could have ever imagined. Anton and Franziska and our parents Marlies and Wolfgang” |
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Post by lewis17 on Mar 9, 2019 11:28:41 GMT 1
Grace Rwaramba, his nanny for many years, has also felt compelled to release a statement in Michael's defence: abcnews.go.com/US/michael-jacksons-nanny-defends-sex-abuse-allegations-hbos/story?id=61531201“If Michael harmed Wade Robson and James Safechuck, they have my deepest sympathy and compassion. I don’t claim to know what happened between Michael and his accusers. I wasn’t there. “However, because Michael is no longer here to defend himself, and because I have a unique view of him and the life he lived, I feel compelled to speak out against what I firmly believe to be false claims. The person that Wade and James describe is not the person that I knew. “He was trusting to the point of extreme naivete; always assuming the best intentions in everyone. While he was far from perfect, in my over twelve years of living with Michael, knowing him and his lifestyle intimately, I never saw or experienced anything that led me to suspect that he was capable of child sexual abuse. “I was at Neverland when many of the family friends would come and go. At any given time, anywhere between 60 to 100 employees worked in security, maintenance, housekeeping, grounds, the kitchen, and many other roles. Maintaining the ranch in such immaculate shape took an entire army of workers that were always around. “I know Wade Robson and his family well. I first met Joy Robson back in the early 90s, when I was at MJJ Productions. In late 1994, I attended the release party of Wade’s first album in California. I distinctly recall Joy running that event as though her life depended on it. After that release party, I didn’t see the Robsons again until early 1997, when Wade joined several other families at Neverland after Prince was born. “Over the years, I got to know the Robsons well as they visited the ranch on many different occasions. Neverland was an enchanting place where the butlers, cooks, maids, zookeepers, gardeners and other staff made every guest feel like royalty, and everyone person who was fortunate to visit loved it! “The one thing that was consistent about the Robsons over the years was Joy's steely resolve to turn Wade into a star. When all the other kids, often including Michael, were off having water balloon fights or watching a movie in the theater, Joy would be drilling Wade on a dance move and every so often wave Michael over for some tips. “On one such occasion, Michael sat next to me as I was watching Prince and we watched Wade practice under Joy’s focused inspection. He said to me, “she reminds me of Joseph,” referring to his father’s obsession with perfection. Unbeknownst to Joy, that was her nickname. Michael had a nickname for everyone. This was the only time I ever heard him compare anyone to his father. Also, despite his complicated past with Joseph, he meant this observation as a compliment. “The Robsons’ ambition and self-interest knew no bounds. Several months before Michael was acquitted on all charges on June 13, 2005, he came home from court and informed me that I should expect a call from Wade. When Wade called the ranch, security patched the call through to Paris’s room where Michael and I spent most of our time preparing for the next day. "I put him on speaker phone. He informed me that Michael had advised him to contact me about whether he and his finance, Amanda, could have their wedding at Neverland in the fall. I was utterly shocked by how insensitive the request was; Michael was sitting next to me. "’You know Grace, Neverland is so special to my family and me,’ Wade continued, “Michael has been like a father to me, and it would mean the world to us if Amanda and I could get married at Neverland.’ I told Wade, this is not a good time, reminding him that Michael was in the middle of the fight for his life. “A few days later, I was in Santa Barbara running errands when Joy called with the same request. I had previously helped Wade gain permission to film a music video at Neverland, which was a big favor considering the strict no cameras policy. I remember responding with a stern ‘do you seriously expect me to ask Michael, right now -- during the trial -- if you can use the ranch for Wade’s wedding?’ "After a moment of awkward tension, she conceded and dropped off the phone. Why would someone who alleges to have been assaulted for over seven years want to have one of the most sacred events in his life on the same property where the attacks allegedly took place? “What I can't understand is why Wade would continue to voluntarily and consistently return, and bring friends and loved ones, to a place that is the site of the alleged attacks well into his adult life? “For twelve years, from 1997 to 2009, I was part of Michael’s family … I spent more time with Michael in the last twelve years of his life than anyone except his children." |
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Post by Whitneyfan on Mar 9, 2019 13:20:48 GMT 1
Very well said lewis17. To me it's quite obvious these guys were coached on what to say in this documentary and it certainly isn't evidence that he was guilty of anything.
Wade Robson only started 'remembering' this stuff after he was sacked as a dancer on the Cirque de soleil show. His claims were thrown out of court and he owes the Jackson estate thousands in court fees. He has since opened a donations page for victims of child abuse on the back of this film, yet won't say specifically where the money is going. Yet this film supposedly had nothing to do with money.
But still, people will believe what they want to believe.
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Post by raliverpool on Mar 9, 2019 16:07:10 GMT 1
OK. It is looking pretty clear to me that a number of you have decided for yourself without watching this documentary that Michael Jackson is innocent (Joining such intellectuals as Donald Trump; Roxanne Pallet & Darren Hayes).
I guess you are all a better judge of character than Tom Hanks who tweeted "If Wade Robson & James Safechuck are lying they are better actors than me"
Plus getting your sources from pro-Jackson websites is not exactly neutral.  Whilst rappers TI & Kendrick Lamar have gone one step further and equated the latest documentaries into R. Kelly (which have resulted in a new police investigation & subsequent charges of child sex abuse) and Michael Jackson (who surely would have received the same, had he been alive in the light of the now 16 new people who have come forward since Leaving Neverland was shown) and claimed it is racially motivated. In a way with MJ they are right (but in the opposite manner of what they were thinking), as one thing I was not aware of was that MJ did not attempt to groom black pre-pubescent males. Before the documentary I was very well aware of Wade Robson's past which makes him a rather flaky witness from a credibility perspective. However, what rocked me in the documentary was the archive footage. MJ was basically flaunting his "conquests" (Savile style) I guess, at all these red carpet events, tours, holidays, appearances, etc. Him and a pre-teen white boy(s), going everywhere together. Literally, hiding in plain sight. If you compare it to his peers, they were attending such things with husbands, wives and boy/girlfriends. I always thought he was a f***ed up individual, but gave him a caveat of forgiveness that I would not give to Savile/Glitter because of his troubled upbringing thinking he was messed up sad mad; not evil bad. But, I realised he must've been getting a warped sense of satisfaction being able to do all this in front of the cameras, knowing he was molesting them behind closed doors, and knowing he was getting away with it. He was incredibly devious and not just that (almost endearing) term frequently used, 'Wacko Jacko' he was a sick perverted criminal getting his kicks from it. I also felt devastated for the men, both of whom still clearly have very confused feelings for him. The scene with the jewellery was heart breaking.
What I also was not aware of until today, but it has possibly been leaked by someone in the FBI after POTUS Trump tweeted in defence of MJ, less than 24 hours after the Obama's condemned MJ in the strongest positive terms .... is that he had something else in common with Jimmy Savile, and that was his countries 1980s leader got an investigation into him dropped as he wanted to give him the highest possible award:
At his trial in the 1990s the evidence that the Prosecution brought was so flimsy that the Yorkshire Ripper & Harold Shipman would have got off in an equivalent case. But the 2000s case was a different animal.
Again what you may not know is that several bits of evidence that may have removed the level of doubt against MJ were not allowed in court including the locked secret hidden room with the equivalent of Gary Glitter laptop taken to PC World:
What threw me was just how in depth this entire documentary was. As a viewer you really learned how MJ groomed these little boys, and their families, working on the mothers in particular, whilst undermining the fathers, and then flaunted them to his adoring public as if there was absolutely nothing wrong with a grown man spending a significant amount of time with impressionable young boys.
It’s always been well documented just how passionate MJ’s fans are and continue to be even a decade on from his death. The documentary really reminded me just how cult like their love for him is like. As if he can do absolutely nothing wrong it’s honestly frightening. As evidenced in the last 24 Hours where Nile Rodgers who played on the History album whom came out in support believing the evidence, and so condemning MJ actions; has resulted in some MJ fans tweeting him hoping that his Cancer returns; and that he dies a long painful death of it; with similar hate threats have been made against the creators of The Simpsons; Sia & Jason Derulo who has similarly come out in support of the Leaving Neverland victims.
But the most vicious criticism from MJ fans has gone towards Lady Gaga "I hope a Madonna fan murders you" "Die Bitch"; "Hope you go the same way as John Lennon", etc whom was going to be the support act on MJ's London O2 gigs. She has collected and purchased over 400 pieces of MJ memorabilia as she has stated she will now auction all of her collection with all the proceeds going to Charities who deal with the victims of Child Abuse. No doubt they are mobilised going around youtube, etc downvoting her videos calling her a talentless whore as I type...
A reminder of why my view on MJ is correct, and why those of you who stlll support the stonewall paedophile of pop was reinforced listening to BBC Radio 6 Music this morning; where on the Music News segment there was a bit from a discussion about listening to & playing MJ's music (from a Radio 4 or Radio 5 Live debate) with MJ nut & Radio 2 DJ Trevor Nelson. Whose first album was the Jackson's Greatest Hits (Motown).
Listening to the Rhythm Nation DJ with his voice faultering as a father of two, after watching the Leaving Neverland documentary at realising he has been duped by one of his heroes and the moral issue of what he thinks he might be able to play in the future (He thinks in time he can justify playing the Motown J5/solo hits; is unsure about the Epic Jacksons songs; but can't contemplate ever playing any of his post Thriller material again) ... was heartbreaking to hear; and puts to shame those of you on Haven who feel happy to defend the indefensible, and reprehensible behaviour of a deceased manipulative, evil child abuser and his rabid fan base. |
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Post by Whitneyfan on Mar 9, 2019 16:20:10 GMT 1
getting your sources from the daily mail and the mirror is hardly neutral (or factual) either.
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on Mar 9, 2019 16:26:06 GMT 1
If I was raped and molested repeatedly for close to a decade and I had a choice aged 22 to either put him behind bars by giving evidence at the 2nd trial and stop my abuser from doing this to other kids or ask to have my wedding in his house I know what I would chose I still see no evidence, no proof, the police and FBI found no evidence either after decades of trying, all we have is the word of 2 men out of how many? a million? hundred thousand? who have both tried to extort money first before doing this documentary, compensation came before doing what was right, they aren't very credible and due to the lack of evidence its hard to have such a strong opinion on the matter tbh, the documentary 100% made him look guilty and his actions were 100% weird, but none of that means he is guilty, everyone is innocent until proven guilty and he hasn't been proven guilty and never will, so its a moot point even if he did it, anyone can use confirmation bias to "prove" either scenario without any actual evidence so what's the point in falling out and arguing about it, everyone can have an opinion on it but nobody knows for sure, its weird to think people out their think they know for sure what went on like they are Columbo or something by quoting one individual nanny who worked for the Jackson family who saw nothing to back up their opinion or even worse quoting from the Daily Mail to prove his guilt because it backs them up  does it really matter? he is dead and everything else the courts will decide what to do according to the law based on actual evidence |
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