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Post by Shireblogger on Jul 12, 2021 7:54:42 GMT 1
Superb game. The first 45 minutes was the best I've seen any England team play, ever. It would have been an injustice if Italy hadn't equalised in the second half. Very even in extra time, and penalties is, of course, a lottery.
My man-of-the-match was Declan Rice, until he was substituted, and Jordan Pickford over the entire 150 minutes.
For England player of the tournament, I think Luke Shaw just edges Raheem Sterling, with Harry Maguire and John Stones sharing bronze. Walker, Phillips and Kane all played consistently well, and Southgate's management of the tournament, each match, his squad and the media was exemplary.
I'm so proud. This team has given me so much pleasure.
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on Jul 12, 2021 9:24:11 GMT 1
We started well but in the end the manager with the better tactics came out on top and I can't complain. No shots on target after we scored in the 2nd minute.
We matched them for long periods though and ended the game level so fine margins
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Pablo
Member
*With Great Power comes Great Responsibilty*
Posts: 7,999
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Post by Pablo on Jul 12, 2021 23:09:54 GMT 1
I find it frustrating that today we should have been reflecting about an England team that haven't reached their peak and praising them for their successes in the last World Cup and the Euros.
Instead the media has been focusing with showing "fans" without tickets breaking through security barriers at Wembley prior to the match and racial abuse sent to the players on social media.
Sometimes you wonder if losing the final was the right result in the end - not just on the pitch but off the pitch too. It's unfortunately reopened up cracks that felt like were previously papered over and more needs to be done.
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Post by rubcale on Jul 13, 2021 10:40:51 GMT 1
The headline by the Daily Telegraph's Chief Sports Writer today sums it up with a level-head:
"Cautious manager found lacking when greatness beckoned"
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Post by Shireblogger on Jul 13, 2021 19:41:30 GMT 1
The headline by the Daily Telegraph's Chief Sports Writer today sums it up with a level-head: "Cautious manager found lacking when greatness beckoned" And the same hack would have written "reckless manager found lacking when greatness beckoned" if England had lost at any stage of the competition. As you know well, its always easy to be critical of someone else. Especially after the event. Presumably the Telegraph's chief whinger would have started the match with five forwards, just like they did in the 1950s. Or did he want Grealish and Foden playing as wing backs, with Shaw and Walker on the bench. Maybe the error was in playing Rice and Phillips together, rather than dropping one of them and starting with Calvert-Lewin in defensive midfield. The fact is that the same XI who were absolutely brilliant in the first half, wilted in the second, playing exactly the same formation. Or, alternatively, Italy, who were feeble in the first half, got a rocket at half-time, and started to play to their true capabilities in the second half. Oh yes, and Southgate's penalty choices were anything but cautious. He went with the confidence of youth. It didn't work out, fractionally. Given you clearly completely agree with the "level-headed" summary, I'd love to hear what you, rubcale, would have done differently if you were in Southgate's position.
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Post by o on Jul 13, 2021 22:15:48 GMT 1
My only criticism is the penalty taker choices, I dont know how that was decided, but no Sterling or Grealish? And I'm told Grealish has come out and said he wanted to take one and it was rejected, personally keep that info to yourself instead of trying to curry favour with fans. I do find it "amusing" that these utterly skilful players are outclassed when faced with a 12 yard kick at goal. However if at the start of the tourno someone had said you'll lose to Italy in the final, I think we all would have taken that? I do fear we will come unstuck in the World Cup and there will be the inevitable media backlash. Expectation has now been built up, and playing in Qatar will be a very different experience.
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Post by rubcale on Jul 14, 2021 11:28:25 GMT 1
The headline by the Daily Telegraph's Chief Sports Writer today sums it up with a level-head: "Cautious manager found lacking when greatness beckoned" And the same hack would have written "reckless manager found lacking when greatness beckoned" if England had lost at any stage of the competition. As you know well, its always easy to be critical of someone else. Especially after the event. Presumably the Telegraph's chief whinger would have started the match with five forwards, just like they did in the 1950s. Or did he want Grealish and Foden playing as wing backs, with Shaw and Walker on the bench. Maybe the error was in playing Rice and Phillips together, rather than dropping one of them and starting with Calvert-Lewin in defensive midfield. The fact is that the same XI who were absolutely brilliant in the first half, wilted in the second, playing exactly the same formation. Or, alternatively, Italy, who were feeble in the first half, got a rocket at half-time, and started to play to their true capabilities in the second half. Oh yes, and Southgate's penalty choices were anything but cautious. He went with the confidence of youth. It didn't work out, fractionally. Given you clearly completely agree with the "level-headed" summary, I'd love to hear what you, rubcale , would have done differently if you were in Southgate's position. I wouldn't even begin to try to pretend that I would have a clue what to do with my limited knowledge of what's involved but I've been listening to all that's been said on Five Live since the match.
There are many agree with yourself but there are also many (including those classed as experts) who agree with Brown's point of view.
Considering it all what he says in my opinion seems to be a darn fine description of what evolved.
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Post by o on Jul 14, 2021 12:21:40 GMT 1
We dominated them for 45 minutes of the first half, I'd say that wasn't cautious? Italy obviously came back into it, because they're the best team in the tourno. If he'd been reckless, we could have lost 2-1 in normal time, would that be better? Or would the headline be Inexperienced manager throws away trophy chance? Damned if you do and damned if you dont with some of the press, it creates clicks on their website and that is what they are after these days.
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Pablo
Member
*With Great Power comes Great Responsibilty*
Posts: 7,999
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Post by Pablo on Jul 15, 2021 0:08:26 GMT 1
My only criticism is the penalty taker choices, I dont know how that was decided, but no Sterling or Grealish? And I'm told Grealish has come out and said he wanted to take one and it was rejected, personally keep that info to yourself instead of trying to curry favour with fans. I do find it "amusing" that these utterly skilful players are outclassed when faced with a 12 yard kick at goal. However if at the start of the tourno someone had said you'll lose to Italy in the final, I think we all would have taken that? I do fear we will come unstuck in the World Cup and there will be the inevitable media backlash. Expectation has now been built up, and playing in Qatar will be a very different experience. Agree with what you said about Grealish, easy to come out saying this to take the heat off him and shift the blame to someone else.
Easy to say now but another criticism - I feel the timing of when Rashford and Sancho came on right at the end of extra time could have put more pressure on them too to score their penalties, knowing that was why they were subbed on. Plus the presence of beating the Italian goalie Donnarumma too.
Now the dust has settled, I thought both goalies had a good game and a good penalty shootout performance.
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on Jul 15, 2021 15:10:06 GMT 1
To be fair Grealish only came out and said that because someone had already shifted the blame onto the non penalty takers claiming "they refused to take a penalty", which is even more out of order imo
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Post by Shireblogger on Jul 15, 2021 16:22:36 GMT 1
Surely we should all be blaming Southgate for not packing his squad with penalty takers with a great track record, such as Matt Le Tissier (53 out of 54), Alan Shearer (56 successful) and Frank Lampard (43 out of 50).
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on Jul 15, 2021 16:37:26 GMT 1
and Mark Noble, second best penalty taker in world football
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Post by Panda on Jul 15, 2021 16:47:45 GMT 1
To be fair Grealish only came out and said that because someone had already shifted the blame onto the non penalty takers claiming "they refused to take a penalty", which is even more out of order imo That someone being Roy Keane who has no right to criticise any international footballer ever. At least Grealish wasn't out walking his dog when his teammates were involved in a penalty shootout.
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