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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 23, 2005 15:21:49 GMT 1
Ok I understand all of that.
Does the time you have to leave between milk/meat very depending on which way around it is? I remember my ex's brother in law talking about it a while ago.
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 23, 2005 16:45:07 GMT 1
There is no fixed time after milk (apart from hard cheese) to eating meat. All that is required is a separation.
From meat to milk the gap depends on your minhag (custom). In most of the world it is 6 hours but it is 3 hours in much of Western Europe (therefore my minhag) among Ashkenazim, and 1 hour (actually 72 minutes) in Holland.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 23, 2005 16:46:25 GMT 1
Why hard cheese? Sorry if I'm annoying you with all the questions
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 23, 2005 16:47:34 GMT 1
Hard cheese because it is harder to consume. But then chicken soup is very easy to consume but you still have to wait to have milk after it.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 24, 2005 11:13:10 GMT 1
By consume do you mean digest?
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 24, 2005 11:18:18 GMT 1
Yes, probably that's what I meant. Generally once you digest food it is no longer considered to be in the same state for halachic purposes, but I think for many foods there is a time limit during which point you still feel the effect, eg you eat a big meat dish then you can still taste the feeling of it for a few hours, whereas if you drink a glass of milk you'd probably not feel it as long.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 24, 2005 11:22:47 GMT 1
Yeah that makes sense. Thanks Neil, sorry if I bore you with all these questions, I'm just a curious soul.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 24, 2005 16:42:15 GMT 1
Sorry Neil... What does Misholoach Manot mean?
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 24, 2005 16:45:24 GMT 1
Mishloach Manot - sending food to your friends. It's one of the 4 special Mitzvot we do on Purim. The others are
- reading the Megillah (Esther) - giving charity to the poor - festive meal (seuda)
The book of Esther, at the end, prescribed these other activities to be done on the day.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 24, 2005 16:50:38 GMT 1
Thank you! The only Jewish holiday I have participated in is Pesach, so I am very ignorant about some of them (Purim didn't feature much in my boyfriend's life).
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 24, 2005 16:54:33 GMT 1
Well there's a load of them coming up in just over a month. If you are interested (and you seem to be) I will tell you a bit more about them. Maybe you'll even go to Shul on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, at least for a bit.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 24, 2005 17:02:15 GMT 1
I know a bit about Rosh Hashanah (New Year) and Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement). I doubt very much I will be able to go to Shul, my boyfriend's no longer a member of a synagogue and he's getting his parents to sort him out and I wouldn't want to impose. If my boyfriend suggested it then I would jump at the chance, but I wouldn't want to force it on him.
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 25, 2005 13:07:25 GMT 1
You don't necessarily need to be a member to go, but some of the synagogues do get very full on those days, so sometimes it is necessary for non-members to book (and pay some money) if they want a seat. They happen to be the most popular days, particularly the Kol Nidre service on Yom Kippur, when almost everyone goes.
I guess you and your boyfriend would go to a reform synagogue and sit together. In Orthodox synagogues, men and women sit separately.
Rosh Hashanah this year falls on 4th-5th October and Yom Kippur on 13th October (so Kol Nidre night is the night of 12th which is a Wednesday night).
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 25, 2005 13:30:17 GMT 1
And Hanukkah co-incides with Christmas/Boxing Day this year! I don't really like to ask my bf about it, I was invited to Passover but I wouldn't want to push. He already discussed it with his parents in front of me and didn't ask me if I wanted to be involved. I don't know if this is because he thinks I would find it boring or because he just didn't think. I remember having a big discussion with my boyfriend's father about men and women sitting together in synagogue. He said it was one of the things he really couldn't accept about Orthodoxy. I have to say, I did agree with him. I am sure there are plenty of good reasons as to why but to me it appears to be a very sexist practise. And what is Yetzer Ha-Ra? Edited because you told me in another thread. I have this picture now of a little devil on my shoulder
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 25, 2005 14:53:40 GMT 1
If you have been with your boyfriend for a long time (and it sounds like it's been a reasonably long time) and you're serious then I think you should discuss these things with him.
Men and women sitting separately makes sense. You go to synagogue to pray, not to socialise. Actually there is time to socialise in the kiddush after the service, but during prayer time you really should be concentrating on the prayers, and that is achieved much better sitting separately.
What you are less likely to agree with in Orthodoxy is how women don't play any role in leading the service, don't get called up to the Torah, and don't count in a Minyan. Actually it's because women are not duty-bound to pray at set times and men are, so those it's only those with the obligation who may perform the role. A woman may read the book of Esther on Purim although I've never been to a synagogue yet where this was done.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 25, 2005 15:03:41 GMT 1
We've not been together awfully long, only 4 months officially. We did discuss it a while ago but it hasn't come up again... I was told that women were exempted rather than prohibited from participating in readings, due to their emphasis on family matters. You are right in thinking that I would not agree with women not participating. I am sure that this would not detract a woman away from her family any more than it would a man, who I believe should be equally responsible for raising a family. Regarding prayer, I view prayer as something that should be shared. To sit next to my partner and share that with him is more meaningful to me than to sit away from him. It is stressed that going to synagogue is the communal aspect of faith and is necessary, so therefore to me it seems even more necessary for men and women to sit together and pray together. It's nothing to do with the social aspect that leads me to think men and women should not be separated. I am sure we can all curtail our Yetzer Ha-Ra for a little while and behave ourselves
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 25, 2005 15:44:34 GMT 1
Well by the time Rosh Hashanah comes up it will be around 6 months and you should tell him how you wish to spend the day (and Yom Kippur), probably a little bit in advance.
The general rule is that if one person is obligated to do something and another person is not obligated i.e. is exempted (but may do it voluntarily) then you ask the one who is obligated to do it. Thus a man, who is obligated to pray at a set time, leads the service. As it happens, most of the men do not "participate" in any given service any more than a woman. (Most of the time when I go to synagogue I take a passive role).
When I pray in the community I am praying with the whole community, not just the people who are close to me. And while some may be able to overcome their Yetzer Hara and pay no attention to the gender of the person they are sitting near, there are too many who can't, (particularly the single/unattached ones) and I think segregation is better for that reason. In fact, remembering what I was like when I was unattached, I'd probably have fallen into that category.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 25, 2005 15:49:07 GMT 1
I'm going to ask him this weekend about going to Shul. Start off slowly He probably thinks I'd be bored, which couldn't be further from the truth. It's ironic really, as I was very resistant to these things with my ex-boyfriend.
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 25, 2005 16:02:20 GMT 1
It's good that you are not likely to be bored by it because I had to recommend a service for someone to go to who didn't normally go, I would not recommend Rosh Hashanah, because it is a very long service and actually one I don't really enjoy. I might suggest they go along for a short time to hear the Shofar being blown.
The evening service on Rosh Hashanah is very nice though as we use a different nigun (tune). The service isn't that long. Friday night service is generally my favourite of all of them though. Of course the reform service is probably totally different.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 25, 2005 16:06:46 GMT 1
Probably. I was going to suggest starting on a Saturday with nothing going on, just so as I get the feel of it.
I've sat through some long services when I was a choral scholar at a Catholic cathedral so I'm used to it!
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