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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 25, 2005 16:43:57 GMT 1
I dislike services with a Chazzan and choir. I dislike a chazzan going on and on - I like services which are led by someone with a very good singing voice but where the whole community sings along. I usually harmonise if I can.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 25, 2005 16:45:32 GMT 1
What's a chazzan?
I can imagine that a service must be very dull for congregants. I've always sung in choirs and I know we get all the good stuff!
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 25, 2005 16:57:49 GMT 1
Chazzan is the Cantor - the one who leads the service. Of course in an orthodox shul there is no instrumental accompaniment and no microphone so they need a voice that carries. Often they have a fairly operatic voice.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 25, 2005 17:00:25 GMT 1
My boyfriend's brother's girlfriend is the leader/cantor of her choir. She has a very powerful voice. They don't really do heavy liturgy in their service, but they did a concert recently at her shul and it was fantastic. I really enjoyed the liturgical pieces. I was saddened to hear that such music doesn't really have a place in service anymore.
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 25, 2005 17:05:58 GMT 1
Well as you may have guessed, in an orthodox service, only a man can be Cantor. And there are only men in the choir too. But then where I go there isn't a choir.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 25, 2005 17:06:51 GMT 1
Is there music in the service then?
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 25, 2005 17:13:54 GMT 1
On Shabbat, yes. Singing, no instruments. Parts of the service are sung in unison by the whole community. Those are the parts I like best. I would invite you to come. But you'd have to sit in the women's section.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 26, 2005 10:01:57 GMT 1
Awww that's very kind of you. I'm going to ask my boyfriend about going to shul over this weekend, though I know the service is totally different.
What you describe reminds me of parts of the Catholic Mass service- there are certain parts where everyone sings in unison, without accompaniment. Where I was a scholar was very old-fashioned, the whole service was done in Latin. I took my ex-boyfriend once to hear me sing there and he said it reminded him of more Orthodox Jewish services in certain ways.
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 26, 2005 10:34:26 GMT 1
Well we sing all in Hebrew. How much Hebrew do you know?
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 26, 2005 10:39:09 GMT 1
Verrrrry little LOL. I was looking at some sites on the internet yesterday about learning Hebrew. I take to languages quite well, I think mastering the alefbet would be the most difficult part. I already worked out a few words on my own by looking for patterns- Rosh Hashanah is the New Year, Shanah Tovah means Happy New Year and Mazel Tov means congratulations or good luck, so that would mean that Shanah is Hebrew for Year, Tov/Tovah means Good and Mazel means luck?
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 26, 2005 10:51:47 GMT 1
Yes. Shanah is year, the Ha in front means "the". Rosh literally means Head. Tov is the masculine form and Tova the feminine form.
Mastering the aleph-bet is fairly straightforward, something I seem to recall I managed around the age of 6-7 (as well as English), and on the whole the language is read as it's written although vowels are often "optional" but when you start you'll always be reading text with them in. The main time you don't read as is written is when seeing the holy name which is written like y-h-v-h but is pronounced "adonai" when praying and "hashem" otherwise. Hashem means "the name" and is used as an alias, a sort of name of G-d that isn't a name (thus you can use it without saying his name in vain).
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 26, 2005 10:57:52 GMT 1
Ahh ok. I knew about y-h-v-h being said as Adonai but not about hashem, although I had heard that word somewhere before...
It might be easy to master a different alphabet when you're young, but my 24 year old brain might not like it so much! I don't think I could master is without vowels, no one I know can read it without!!
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 26, 2005 11:06:51 GMT 1
I struggle to read without vowels too. You have to know the language well to do that. I think it's true about it being easier to learn languages when you're young, but I think it also helps to live in the country where they speak it. Have you ever been to Israel?
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 26, 2005 11:10:17 GMT 1
No I haven't. I would really love to, it's the top of my list of places I haven't been that I want to go to. But I would like to have learnt some Hebrew before I go- I don't like going to a country where I can't at least understand the language. I get that from my mother- she's a very gifted linguist and she likes to talk!!
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 26, 2005 11:17:30 GMT 1
That will limit you a lot as to where you can travel (unless you are a language expert). I've been to countries like Sweden and know a single word of Swedish.
I spent 5 months in Israel in 1984. It's the only country that, when I visit, I don't feel like a tourist. Instead I feel it's my homeland.
I also lived 5 months in Belgium in 1998 when I was working there that year. At the time it did feel like I was living there because I had a flat there, my car and my job. I've never been back there since (though I'm always saying I'd like to pop over there to stock up with beer, because Belgian beer is so much better!).
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 26, 2005 11:23:42 GMT 1
I do pick up languages quite quickly. I went to Prague last year and was surprised how much Czech I could understand after a few days. However, I went to Budapest this year and it was awful, couldn't understand a word of Hungarian! I can speak French and Italian, and love going to both countries. My mother is bi-lingual in French and English. Maybe it's because we are descended from French refugees. Learning Latin made it so much easier to understand Western European languages. I can understand Spanish although I have never had a lesson, but have yet to go there. Portuguese is slightly more difficult because it is quite an odd language, although it is Western it is very gutteral. I would love to be able to learn lots of languages, I hate feeling like a dumb tourist. My boyfriend went to Israel in the early 90s and said it was one of the most emotional experiences of his life.
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 26, 2005 11:29:10 GMT 1
Carol is fluent ni Spanish (her first language) and Portuguese as well as English. She talks to the baby in Spanish so he'll probably learn to speak it, and they'll be able to have private conversations that I won't understand. Maybe I'll get to pick it up though.
I've been to Budapest too - never been to Prague. Actually the one positive thing that came out of my net addiction in the mid-90s was that I got to travel so much (to meet up with people from 'net). One of those places was Estonia and I also got to learn a bit of Estonian. Not much but it's always nice to be able to speak a few words of the language of a country you are in.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 26, 2005 11:31:20 GMT 1
Wow Estonia!
What did you think of Budapest? Myself, I really hated it, I found the people very unfriendly. Didn't help that me and my ex were on the verge of breaking up when we went as well!
Is Carol Spanish?
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Post by Earl Purple on Aug 26, 2005 11:41:42 GMT 1
Some parts of Budapest were really nice and it was a bit of a break for me, but like you I was also fighting a bit too much with the person that I went to visit there. I didn't notice if the people were so friendly or unfriendly, I did notice everything was much cheaper. I was there for just a weekend so time was precious. On the Saturday night when we went out there was a square where they were showing off internet (it wasn't so popular back then as it is now) and the girl I was visiting decided to jump online, opened 4 chat windows and started chatting with all her net friends for ages. Well maybe about 10 minutes, before I grabbed the mouse off her and logged her off. That sort-of set the tone for the whole evening, and it was a shame because our first meeting had gone really well (which is why we met up again) and things had been reasonably tolerable until that point.
Carol is from Argentina, but she came here with her family about 18 years ago.
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Post by thepennydrops on Aug 26, 2005 13:33:47 GMT 1
Are there many Jewish people in Argentina?
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