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Post by raliverpool on Nov 2, 2019 12:17:25 GMT 1
Battered like a sausage, done like a kipper, they worked us out, or was it a game too far? No Danny Cipriani = no chance.
The Springboks coach Rassie Erasmus was asked midweek was there any England player his team feared; and he said with a big smile Yes, Danny Cipriani!
Ultimately Eddie Jones hubris of leaving out the mercurial Matthew Le Tissier-like Gloucester fly half/full back who in 2019 won Player of the Year by the Rugby Players Association; & European Player of The Year cost England dearly, as the previous two times he played v South Africa he was Man Of The Match for his visionary cross kicking game with either feet against the anti-Rugby South Africans opened up their brilliant defence.
When will English sports learn, that time and time again having cliques resulting in not picking your best players is costly. The sooner we adopt the Australian sporting mentality of getting people who don't like each other and locking them in a room together to sort out their issues or else both parties are out of the team the better.
Imagine the England football team without Raheem Sterling; or the England Cricket team without Ben Stokes FFS.
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Post by Shireblogger on Nov 2, 2019 15:05:21 GMT 1
^^^ Nonsense to think that a 32-12 defeat would have been reversed if Danny Cipriani had been playing. And England have won plenty of football matches without Sterling, and cricket matches without Stokes.
What those 3 sports all have in common is that they are team games. And the South African team, from coaches and tacticians, to the players in the starting XV and the subs, comprehensively outplayed their opposite numbers from England. South Africa deserved to win, and to lay the defeat completely at the feet of Eddie Jones is ludicrous.
England did better than should have been expected in reaching the final. They should all be loudly applauded for that.
And every Japanese person associated with the World Cup also deserves great credit. They have organised an efficient and entertaining tournament, and the host nation themselves have become a team to take seriously at international level.
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Post by raliverpool on Nov 2, 2019 16:01:37 GMT 1
^^^ Nonsense to think that a 32-12 defeat would have been reversed if Danny Cipriani had been playing. And England have won plenty of football matches without Sterling, and cricket matches without Stokes. What those 3 sports all have in common is that they are team games. And the South African team, from coaches and tacticians, to the players in the starting XV and the subs, comprehensively outplayed their opposite numbers from England. South Africa deserved to win, and to lay the defeat completely at the feet of Eddie Jones is ludicrous. England did better than should have been expected in reaching the final. They should all be loudly applauded for that. And every Japanese person associated with the World Cup also deserves great credit. They have organised an efficient and entertaining tournament, and the host nation themselves have become a team to take seriously at international level. That is rubbish. South Africa lost in the group stages comprehensively against New Zealand. Hence, England from Eddie Jones downwards thought all they had to do was turn up with the same XV side as last weekend, and get the same result; and it was clear from the first 10 minutes England had no clear game plan, as all South Africa did was repeat the same strategy that saw them defeat England in their first two tests of the three Test series in 2018. It was only with the series lost Eddie Jones rolled the dice and brought in the mercurial Danny Cipriani who put in a MOTM performance in a 10-25 thrashing by England; and that was before his outstanding season last year.
The RFU arrogance came a totally deserved cropper in the final for their laddish macho culture, who could really learn from Gareth Southgate understated & inclusive evolution of England's national football team.
Is it little wonder Scots; Welsh; Irish; & Anzacs are gleefully putting the boot in when the English RFU had this T-shirt as official merchandise for sale since Monday:
& from ex-players who are part of England RFU's cheerleading clique:
Matt Dawson wouldn't include any South Africa players in his combined XV with England.
Still perhaps the English RFU misplaced over entitled arrogance comes from this "leader" who's favourite sport is Rugby Union:
In his interview after today's 2019 World Cup Final match Eddie Jones said "I'm Not Sure Why We Lost Final" ..... well if he seriously thinks that then it is time we replaced him with someone who knows what they are doing, and why we lost.
After all Eddie Jones strongly implied the reason he did not think Danny Cipriani was good enough for England, was due to the fact he regarded him as "Mentally Weak"
It is time we ditched this Australian, and with his caveman like attitude to mental health.
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Post by Panda on Nov 3, 2019 17:53:30 GMT 1
Average ranking in World Cup tournaments: eg 1 = winner, 2 = runner-up, etc (number of World Cup appearances in brackets) 1. New Zealand 2.556 (9) 2. South Africa 3.000 (7) 3. Australia 3.444 (9) 4. France 4.333 (9) 5. England 4.444 (9) 6. Wales 6.333 (9) 7. Scotland 6.667 (9) 8. Ireland 7.444 (9) 9. Argentina 8.778 (9) 10. Samoa 11.000 (8) 11. Fiji 11.250 (8) 12. Italy 12.111 (9) 13. Canada 13.000 (9) 14. Tonga 13.375 (8) 15. Japan 13.556 (9) 16. Georgia 14.600 (5) 17. Romania 14.625 (8) 18. Ivory Coast 15.000 (1) 19. USA 15.875 (8) 20. Zimbabwe 16.000 (2) 21. Uruguay 16.250 (4) 22. Spain 18.000 (1) 23. Namibia 19.000 (6) 24. Russia 19.000 (2) 25. Portugal 19.000 (1)
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Tom
Member
*Of Royal Blood*
Posts: 15,419
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Post by Tom on Nov 4, 2019 11:18:58 GMT 1
As bad as Saturday was let's not forget we did beat the All Blacks to reach the final. I didn't see that match but it was considered by at least one respected rugby figure to be England's best ever performance. The minimum expectation the RFU set was the semi finals. I don't consider the tournament a success for England, a massive high followed by a massive low, but it's certainly not been a failure. Whether Eddie Jones should have his contract extended beyond 2021 I'm not sure, but he shouldn't be sacked. I'm leaning towards extending it though just because I'm not convinced 2 years for a new coach to build towards the next World Cup is long enough.
Maybe the team coach arriving late didn't help? Brian McDermott talked recently about Reading's 2011 playoff final defeat in a lot of detail, but what bothered him most about the day was that the team coach arrived late to Wembley as it meant he couldn't enjoy the day as much as he wanted to.
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Post by Panda on Nov 5, 2019 14:56:14 GMT 1
World rankings after the World Cup:
1. South Africa 2. New Zealand 3. England 4. Wales 5. Ireland 6. Australia 7. France 8. Japan 9. Scotland 10. Argentina 11. Fiji 12. Italy 13. Tonga 14. Georgia 15. Samoa 16. Spain 17. USA 18. Uruguay 19. Romania 20. Russia 21. Portugal 22. Canada 23. Namibia 24. Hong Kong 25. Netherlands 26. Brazil 27. Belgium 28. Germany 29. Chile 30. Switzerland 31. South Korea 32. Kenya 33. Colombia 34. Zimbabwe 35. Ukraine 36. Czech Republic 37. Poland 38. Malta 39. Tunisia 40. Lithuania
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