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Post by o on Feb 14, 2011 16:36:44 GMT 1
Lip-synching at the Grammy's in the chorus
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Post by djshaun on Feb 14, 2011 18:46:21 GMT 1
When referring to the song being a 'generational anthem' is she not referring more to the content of the lyrics rather than the melody being massively original, and the fact that such an overtly gay song lyrically would not have had such worldwide success in the past? Surely she is the only perfomer at the moment with such popularity that she could release this song and it still be accepted in those parts of the world that are less tolerant of homosexuality? Well you can read the song in several ways and not necessarily about being gay. It's about acceptance and being proud of what you are...Thats not a particularly "new" topic but if we stick to the pretext that it is about being gay then is it any less successful than Rod Stewart's "The Killing of Georgie"? Or certainly any less successful than "Vogue" which took a dance routine from teh gay subculture and took it around the world? Gaga has been more successful more instantly if you like but then that's the digital age for you I must admit that I'm not familiar with the Killing of Georgie but having just found the lyrics I see your point. But I assume it didn't have quite the global success that Born This Way has already achieved. I also see what you're saying about Vogue but have to say that I'm sure a large percentage of the population would not realise that it relates to a "gay subculture" and just appreciate the song for what it is. You have to admit though there are some overtly pro-gay lines in the lyrics of Born this Way such as "No matter gay, straight or bi Lesbian, transgendered life I'm on the right track, baby I was born to survive" and I'm not sure that many other artists would have such global success with similar lyrics. Anyway as I said earlier I think that is what she probably meant about it being a generational anthem rather than the overall song being something completely different and groundbreaking.
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Post by Chris on Feb 14, 2011 19:16:34 GMT 1
The Killing Of Georgie Pts 1 & 2 was a much better record than this but only reached No.2 I think. Great song.
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Post by raliverpool on Feb 14, 2011 22:09:43 GMT 1
The Killing Of Georgie Pts 1 & 2 was a much better record than this but only reached No.2 I think. Great song. Indeed, a great song and it did make UK#2 in 1976. However, it relatively flopped in the USA (were he was huge at the time in his Atlantic Crossing era) and only made USA#30 due to a large number of middle-America radio stations refusing to play it. Ironically, it too suffered from plagiarism claims from Bob Dylan regarding its similarity to his own composition "Simple Twist of Fate" in Part 1; and more obviously the publishers of the Beatles Northern Songs (at the time ATV) due to Part 2's melody being similar to the B-side of "Get Back" (which Rod The Mod had earlier covered the A side!), "Don't Let Me Down".
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Post by raliverpool on Feb 14, 2011 22:52:55 GMT 1
As for the Madge-gate claims.... I think the GaGa has done a bit of point scoring over the Queen Of Pop.
As a number of musicologists, and contemporaries have pointed out in the last 48 hours including former Chic mainman and producer of Madonna's Like A Virgin album, Nile Rodgers......
Madonna's Express Yourself not only ripped off the chorus of "Express Yourself" a 1972 US Top 20 hit for the Staple Singers (resulting in a loss of 25% of the publishing/songwriting royalties); but its verse was accused at the time of having similarities with an old 1970s disco underground anthem "I Was Born This Way" originally recorded by a gay male singer Valentino in 1974; then again by another gay male singer Carl Bean in 1977 to no chart success.
In 1989 the writers of the 1972 composition (lyrics by a straight black woman called Bunny Jones; and a bisexual white male Chris Spierer) tried to sue the writers Madonna & Stephen Bray for a share of the royalties of Express Yourself. But as neither were professional songwriters they quickly lost the will to battle on due to counter claims if they lost the case and potential spiralling legal costs.
As Lady GaGa studied at the New York University's Tisch School of the Arts, and did several 80 page thesis on topics such as art, religion, social issues and politics, then as some musicologists are concluding she may well be aware of what happened with regards to the above. Hence, she has used this song not just to put such a Pro Gay/transgender song into the mainstream, but to possibly have a pop at Madonna by making it musically deliberately similar in a "come and sue me if you think you're hard enough" attitude.
Especially when at the Grammys last night she paid tribute to the only female rival Madonna had in the 1980s, Whitney Houston ......
.... I guess a bit like the White Stripes releasing something that sounds very close to an old Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin track which they actually ripped off (and got away with) an old 1930s blues composition by an impoverished artist.
I just hope next time she does it she uses a better tune than "the 4th worst single Madonna released in 1989".
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Gezza
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Posts: 7,846
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Post by Gezza on Feb 14, 2011 23:07:32 GMT 1
Well you can read the song in several ways and not necessarily about being gay. It's about acceptance and being proud of what you are...Thats not a particularly "new" topic but if we stick to the pretext that it is about being gay then is it any less successful than Rod Stewart's "The Killing of Georgie"? Or certainly any less successful than "Vogue" which took a dance routine from teh gay subculture and took it around the world? Gaga has been more successful more instantly if you like but then that's the digital age for you I must admit that I'm not familiar with the Killing of Georgie but having just found the lyrics I see your point. But I assume it didn't have quite the global success that Born This Way has already achieved. I also see what you're saying about Vogue but have to say that I'm sure a large percentage of the population would not realise that it relates to a "gay subculture" and just appreciate the song for what it is. You have to admit though there are some overtly pro-gay lines in the lyrics of Born this Way such as "No matter gay, straight or bi Lesbian, transgendered life I'm on the right track, baby I was born to survive" and I'm not sure that many other artists would have such global success with similar lyrics. Anyway as I said earlier I think that is what she probably meant about it being a generational anthem rather than the overall song being something completely different and groundbreaking. Yes we live in more liberal times now it's true- prior to the noughties I think that any song about gays would have been career death just as being gay was practically the same- witness George Michael's career nosedive in teh US after he was outed! If by "Success" you mean sales then only time will tell but let's assume your eventually right on that point- I think her step is less controversial/ risky than Rod Stewart's decision to release "The Killing Of Georgie" in the 70's for example. From Memory Madonna was always very clear in interviews as to where Vogue came from and who she was borrowing it from- I certainly knew at the time and i was 14. More interestingly, and I think this is proved by the fact we're discussing it now, she's using the age old tactic of using sex to sell. The hetero thing has been done to death so in some ways "the gays" as michael Parkinson called them once, is still a taboo to explore, teh video will be interesting to see in terms of how much she pushes that point. I'm reminded of Gary barlow's "Forever Love" and Christina Aguilera's "Beautiful" which had full on guys kissing guys and girls kissing girls in it so we'll see- teh holy grail to beat in that field is surely "Relax" Frankie Goes to Hollywood" If she does something more/ equally controversial that then i'll doff my cap to her... It's all gettin very pop historical now lol
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Gezza
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Post by Gezza on Feb 14, 2011 23:10:01 GMT 1
^OMG i forgot about Tatu "All the things she said" but that was clearly hetro porn wrapped in Russian trash so i'm dismissing that- godd song tho!
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Gezza
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Post by Gezza on Feb 14, 2011 23:19:59 GMT 1
As for the Madge-gate claims.... I think the GaGa has done a bit of point scoring over the Queen Of Pop. As a number of musicologists, and contemporaries have pointed out in the last 48 hours including former Chic mainman and producer of Madonna's Like A Virgin album, Nile Rodgers...... Madonna's Express Yourself not only ripped off the chorus of "Express Yourself" a 1972 US Top 20 hit for the Staple Singers (resulting in a loss of 25% of the publishing/songwriting royalties); but its verse was accused at the time of having similarities with an old 1970s disco underground anthem "I Was Born This Way" originally recorded by a gay male singer Valentino in 1974; then again by another gay male singer Carl Bean in 1977 to no chart success. In 1989 the writers of the 1972 composition (lyrics by a straight black woman called Bunny Jones; and a bisexual white male Chris Spierer) tried to sue the writers Madonna & Stephen Bray for a share of the royalties of Express Yourself. But as neither were professional songwriters they quickly lost the will to battle on due to counter claims if they lost the case and potential spiralling legal costs. As Lady GaGa studied at the New York University's Tisch School of the Arts, and did several 80 page thesis on topics such as art, religion, social issues and politics, then as some musicologists are concluding she may well be aware of what happened with regards to the above. Hence, she has used this song not just to put such a Pro Gay/transgender song into the mainstream, but to possibly have a pop at Madonna by making it musically deliberately similar in a "come and sue me if you think you're hard enough" attitude. Especially when at the Grammys last night she paid tribute to the only female rival Madonna had in the 1980s, Whitney Houston ...... .... I guess a bit like the White Stripes releasing something that sounds very close to an old Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin track which they actually ripped off (and got away with) an old 1930s blues composition by an impoverished artist. I just hope next time she does it she uses a better tune than "the 4th worst single Madonna released in 1989". An interesting opinion- I'm sure Lady Gaga and Madonna aren't in the slightest bit bothered by the "controversy" over whether or not it's a rip off they both benefit- I'm sure more copies of "Express Yourself" are being shifted now than at any time since 1989! It wouldn't surprise me if they cooked it up between them they're both so media savvy it's not beyond them!
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Post by krescendo on Feb 18, 2011 16:39:15 GMT 1
At first listen it was just average, now it's grown on me.
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