A revised 2016/17 League Table, with a surprising result...
I have added FA Cup, League Cup and European matches to the League Table, continuing with 3 points for a win, and 1 for a draw. Thus a team which had an average league season, but did have a cup run, is rewarded accordingly. For matches settled on penalties, I have given 1 point for a draw.
New Position [League Position] Club :: games played : points
1  Manchester Utd :: 63 : 126 2  Chelsea :: 47 : 114 3  Arsenal :: 55 : 113 4  Manchester City :: 56 : 112
Europa Cup and League Cup wins, plus a run in the FA Cup are enough to propel Manchester United to the top of the table. They played 7 more matches than any other side in 2016/17.
Chelsea's run to the final of the FA Cup, and their dominance in the League were insufficient to take the overall title. They actually won 1 match more than United, but only drew 3 compared to 18 draws for United.
Arsenal jump to 3rd, winning two games less than Chelsea. Tottenham's dismal European and unremarkable Cup results mean they drop down to 5th.
Southampton (League Cup and Europa League) and Leicester (Champions League and FA Cup), both overhauled Everton who managed just one non-League win in the entire season.
West Ham also qualified for Europe in 2016/17, but blew their chances almost immediately.
Hull's fans had 5 Cup wins to cheer, making their late season relegation especially tough to stomach. WBA were the only Premier Division team to be eliminated from both Cups at the first opportunity.
Last Edit: May 29, 2017 12:17:56 GMT 1 by Yulelogger
The national team is also a lot weaker than in the 70-90s when they would regularly qualify for tournaments.
You could say it's a money thing, and it's true there is a lot more money in England but there are other countries that have stronger national teams that do not have any more money or players than Scotland.
When I was in Scotland in 2011 I did note that on a Saturday night they showed English Premier League football on the TV. I guess that's how unpopular the Scottish league is now.
When I was there Spurs went to Hearts and won 5-0. That shows how far apart the leagues are, particularly any Scottish team that isn't Celtic.
Seriously the Scottish FA must do something to improve the state of things up there. Coaching of players, etc. and getting their own league more competitive and better sponsored etc.
Post by Razzle Dazzle on May 29, 2017 13:00:13 GMT 1
1) Money - It all comes back to two things money and failure at grass roots level, countries with half decent national sides and no money are obviously doing something right but it is all about money, back in the 90's a team like Rangers could tempt Gazza or Laudrup over Premiership teams because they got the 50'000 gates so they were on a level playing field with top 5 Premiership teams with 20'000-35,000 capacity stadiums, and they competed well until the Premiership really got going and the TV money came rolling in, now the best team in Scotland can only offer 20k a week wages and a 5th place team in the Premiership can offer 200k a week
2) Failure at grass roots - Its the same in all of the uk but in England they have the money to throw at a failing system and make it look just about ok, but that takes money and lots of it, look at youth team football, Chelsea alone spent more on their youth team than the whole of Scotland, top to bottom, every team in every league, some countries get this right and don't need money because they have never had money whilst Scotland at its best relied on attracting the top players on relatively speaking big money
3) Unglamorous - Its cold, wet, one sided and they cant compete financially, back in the 90s they attracted THE BEST foreign talent and kept it, Henrik Larrson (7 year at Celtic!), but back then they had the gates of 60'000 and Rangers 50,000 and 90% of revenue was generated by ticket sales, it was Premiership teams that couldn't compete until the TV money v Gate Reciept ratio went nuts where in the Premiership some teams gate receipts make up 10% of their revenue, now Scotland has nothing going for it
Post by misterhamster on May 29, 2017 15:41:21 GMT 1
The quality of Scottish football was summed up by Gordon Strachan's time in charge of Middlesbrough. A load of Old Firm players who'd won countless trophies north of the border and weren't even good enough for the Championship in England.
Post by All I want for Xmas is an NM#1 on May 29, 2017 16:29:20 GMT 1
And isn't it better to play at Middlesbrough (if they are in the Premier League) and whilst not be in the Champions League, you play competitive games every week including 12 fixtures against the now "big 6" whereas if you are at Celtic you get to play 6 fixtures in a Champions League group but the rest of the season against mediocre opposition.
Incidentally the standard in the Championship is higher than many people think which is why our chairman got it all wrong when he tried bringing certain players to Charlton Athletic who were simply not good enough for the Championship, even if they could play in the top division in Belgium.
I don't think grass roots level is all that bad in England. Our failure in major international tournaments is partly due to when they are and partly due to the format, and I would far rather see an international "league" with fixtures spread across the normal football season, possibly a European one, and scrap the European Championship, or just make that a straight knockout cup as a bonus.
If you're going to go down in 2018 anyway it's better you go up now so you end up back in the championship rather than finding yourself in league 1 in 2018-19
Yes, but last two occasions we've lost in play off finals we've won the title the following season. And 2005 had a playoff final feeling as well, having to win at Wigan to make the playoffs (and I think other results had to go our way too). The defeat saw them celebrate the title. I'm pretty sure the players said they used that as a motivation when winning the title the year after.
Post by Robbie The Snowman on Jun 5, 2017 16:55:07 GMT 1
Just when I thought the headlines for the season were over... ex Newcastle player Cheick Tiote has died. At 30. Yikes! RIP. He's best known for scoring the 4th goal in our game v Arsenal back in February 2011, when we came back from being 4-0 down to draw 4-4. His goal will live long in the minds of Toon supporters.
Here's a hand held camera shot of the goal he scored, in the last two minutes of the game against Arsenal
I've just discovered that Charlton have signed one of our youngsters, Tarique Fosu. Surprised he's gone to a L1 club really, I expected more from his loan spells in L2, and he also didn't stand out as much as I thought he would when I've seen him in the U23s in the last couple of years. He came off the bench in 2015 in a televised match at Derby on the final day which ended their play-off chances, with a performance that excited everyone, and which came out of nowhere. There has been debate recently, is he underrated (managers haven't really given him any chance since that debut at Derby) or overrated by the fans. Must admit prior to that Derby game he wasn't close to being my favourite player in the Youth Cup/U21 (it was U21s back then) team the season before..
Also disappointing that Jack Stacey, who I mentioned on here during the playoffs, has joined Luton today, though I understand why he's gone as I wasn't sure how much of a chance he was going to get next season.
I note several posts about Celtic's hilarious defeat to the Gibraltar postmen's social club earlier this week. Perhaps those posts could be moved here ?
Aftermath: Celtic go invincible, Lincoln Red Imps later lost their best striker to Europa FC, who went on to win the double and gave Lincoln their first trophyless season in decades (runners up in both comps).
You guys watched the match between Rangers and Progrès Niederkorn? Quite a devastating one considering the loss was delivered not by the top Luxembourg team but just by the 4th best.
Welcome to the forum!
I didn't see the match, but read the reports. Quite a stunning result, and while I don't think we can read too much into it, it doesn't bode well for hopes of an actual competition in Scotland this season.