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Post by Maximo Mark on Jul 12, 2010 17:08:34 GMT 1
I think that referees have their best games when they have very few big decisions to make, like in Webb's first three matches and other good refereeing performances at the World Cup. When there were as many incidents as yesterday no ref is going to get them all correct, and I think the majority of World Cup refs would've had a worse game yesterday. He tried to let it flow as much as he could but the players wouldn't allow that, he had to keep giving free kicks and booking people. Yes, he issued 14 cards, but how many were not deserved? I count zero. Every single one of them was at least a yellow card offence. Yes, he could've sent De Jong, Van Bommel, Robben, Puyol and Iniesta off too, but could you imagine the outrage if a World Cup final was allowed to end with so few players on the pitch?!
All I think he got wrong was, De Jong's booking (should've been a straight red, maybe he wasn't at the best angle?), the corner which was a goal kick (I don't see how you couldn't have seen the deflection) and not sending Robben off (he kicked the ball away, he should've given a yellow for consistancy's sake - he gave Xavi(?) one for the same thing). Puyol should probably have gone, but I doubt he'd have seen it given that the contact was infront of Puyol and Pique was running behind them, and why didn't Robben go down? Because he was trying to cheat his way to a penalty and not a free-kick! I don't think there's any player who wasn't trying to buy fouls yesterday.
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Post by suedehead on Jul 12, 2010 17:59:29 GMT 1
It really is a bit of a cheek for the Dutch coach to complain about Howard Webb when it was his players who made Webb's job so difficult. Having grown up watching the Dutch side of the 1970s it really saddened me to see the way they played last night. I'm just glad it was won by Spain, the team who tried to play like a 1970s Dutch side.
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Post by raliverpool on Jul 12, 2010 18:46:59 GMT 1
I think it is outrageous for the Dutch coach to be complaining about Howard Webb, when he arguably could have sent 3 Dutch players off the pitch without complaint.
Before the match I was not too bothered who won, but once it became clear what the Dutch strategy was I wanted Spain to win as they were the only team on the pitch trying to play football as opposed to the Dutch "Total Thuggery".
I have to say though this has easily been the worst World Cup I've watched since my first one of interest back in 1978. Forget England's largely feeble performance; but the Jabulani ball; the Vuvuzelas droning (the Mexican wave all is forgiven); largely empty stadiums; virtually all the star names having mediocre or worse tournaments; the large number of poor quality matches with sides scared to lose have all contributed to an underwhelming climax with the Final.
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vastar iner
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Post by vastar iner on Jul 12, 2010 22:16:40 GMT 1
Yes, he issued 14 cards, but how many were not deserved? I count zero. Every single one of them was at least a yellow card offence. Yes, he could've sent De Jong, Van Bommel, Robben, Puyol and Iniesta off too, but could you imagine the outrage if a World Cup final was allowed to end with so few players on the pitch?! You mean a bit like the Netherlands v Portugal match last time out that had 3 (I think) reds and saw the referee castigated by FIFA? Even though the only error the ref made on the bookings was not sending off Boulharouz for a quite horrendous stamp on Ronaldo? Funny, that involved the Dutch as well... For once I had sympathy with Howard Webb...damned if he did, damned cos he didn't.
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Post by suedehead on Jul 12, 2010 22:40:37 GMT 1
Yes, he issued 14 cards, but how many were not deserved? I count zero. Every single one of them was at least a yellow card offence. Yes, he could've sent De Jong, Van Bommel, Robben, Puyol and Iniesta off too, but could you imagine the outrage if a World Cup final was allowed to end with so few players on the pitch?! You mean a bit like the Netherlands v Portugal match last time out that had 3 (I think) reds and saw the referee castigated by FIFA? Even though the only error the ref made on the bookings was not sending off Boulharouz for a quite horrendous stamp on Ronaldo? Funny, that involved the Dutch as well... For once I had sympathy with Howard Webb...damned if he did, damned cos he didn't. It's probably partly a case of defending an English referee but there does seem top be widespread sympathy for Howard Webb. I think even the great Pierluigi Collina would have struggled last night.
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Post by suedehead on Jul 12, 2010 23:21:46 GMT 1
Johann Cruyff has added to the criticism of Webb by saying he was too lenient with a number of Dutch players and that de Jong and Robben should both have been sent off. He has been very critical of the way his countrymen played last night. As one of the 70s side's biggest stars it seems he feels betrayed. www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/12/world-cup-final-johan-cruyff-holland
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Post by o on Jul 13, 2010 10:05:13 GMT 1
Yes, he issued 14 cards, but how many were not deserved? I count zero. Every single one of them was at least a yellow card offence. Yes, he could've sent De Jong, Van Bommel, Robben, Puyol and Iniesta off too, but could you imagine the outrage if a World Cup final was allowed to end with so few players on the pitch?! You mean a bit like the Netherlands v Portugal match last time out that had 3 (I think) reds and saw the referee castigated by FIFA? Even though the only error the ref made on the bookings was not sending off Boulharouz for a quite horrendous stamp on Ronaldo? Funny, that involved the Dutch as well... For once I had sympathy with Howard Webb...damned if he did, damned cos he didn't. Exactly! When is someone going to actually criticise the players, and not the ref. I remember that Portugal v Holland game, and the players were disgraceful! Do they get punished for so many bookings in one game? Paltry fine of 20k I expect? And I know Cruyff criticised Webb a little, but he also said this which puts him up in my estimation... "Sadly, they (holland) played very dirty," Cruyff told Spanish newspaper El Periodico. "This ugly, vulgar, hard, hermetic, hardly eye-catching, hardly football style... If with this they got satisfaction, fine, but they lost." Can someone tell me why the Spanish were upset by the choice of Webb BEFORE the final? Did he have a bad game in the Champs league final?
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Post by Panda on Jul 13, 2010 10:43:15 GMT 1
Can someone tell me why the Spanish were upset by the choice of Webb BEFORE the final? Did he have a bad game in the Champs league final? He refereed their loss to Switzerland.
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Post by Panda on Jul 14, 2010 10:01:17 GMT 1
The new FIFA world rankings have been published this morning:
1(2) Spain 2(4) Holland 3(1) Brazil 4(6) Germany 5(7) Argentina 6(16) Uruguay 7(8) England 8(3) Portugal 9(12) Egypt 10(18) Chile 11(5) Italy 12(13) Greece 13(14) USA 13(15) Serbia 15(10) Croatia 16(31) Paraguay 17(11) Russia 18(24) Switzerland 19(25) Slovenia 20(20) Australia
21(9) France 23(32) Ghana 24(17) Mexico 26(27) Ivory Coast 27(34) Slovakia 29(36) Denmark 30(21) Nigeria 32(45) Japan 33(30) Algeria 40(19) Cameroon 44(47) South Korea 46(38) Honduras 54(78) New Zealand 66(83) South Africa 103(105) North Korea
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Post by o on Jul 14, 2010 10:06:11 GMT 1
Greece have gone up a place? And just to let everyone know, I'll probably close the sub forum today or tomorrow, but all the threads will still be open in Sport for any chat, it's been good
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Post by Panda on Jul 14, 2010 10:06:27 GMT 1
The FIFA rankings contain the usual "Eh?" moments. Norway, who haven't qualified for anything in 10 years, are flying high at #22. Gabon are up at #34. Peru, who finished bottom of the South American qualifying group, are rated as the 6th best South American team, at #38. My rankings have Peru at #98.
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Post by Panda on Jul 14, 2010 10:08:00 GMT 1
Greece have gone up a place? Yes. They did win one game... Plus, it's Croatia who they've overtaken.
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frag
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Post by frag on Jul 14, 2010 11:07:01 GMT 1
I guess the massive drop for Portugal is because they finished 4th last time around. Egypt's rise is slightly surprising, but I guess they had nothing replaced by nothing in terms of world cup performances, while the teams they overtook all lost a lot of points.
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Post by Panda on Jul 14, 2010 12:26:26 GMT 1
I guess the massive drop for Portugal is because they finished 4th last time around. That might be part of it but FIFA's rankings reduce the importance of older matches. #3 was ridiculously high for them before the World Cup. They finished 2nd behind Denmark in their qualifying group, were knocked out of Euro 2008 in the quarters by Germany and lost to Germany in the 3rd place match in 2006. Despite this, they were ranked ahead of Germany going into the World Cup... Egypt's rise is slightly surprising, but I guess they had nothing replaced by nothing in terms of world cup performances, while the teams they overtook all lost a lot of points. Indeed. They've benefited from other teams badly underperforming.
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