musicfan2000
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The Big Sook
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Post by musicfan2000 on Oct 12, 2013 23:06:47 GMT 1
as much as i think vettel is amazing driver races are becoming predictable circaa 2000 micheal schumacher era
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Post by smokeyb on Oct 13, 2013 16:56:34 GMT 1
Vettel wins again............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzfest
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musicfan2000
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The Big Sook
Robot Vs Godzilla : Destroy the city
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Post by musicfan2000 on Oct 13, 2013 16:58:20 GMT 1
hopefully the change in engines next year will make a more competitive f1
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Post by smokeyb on Oct 13, 2013 17:03:11 GMT 1
hopefully the change in engines next year will make a more competitive f1 The Red Bull is so far ahead, the only way they can slow it down is make it pull a trailer or something
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musicfan2000
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The Big Sook
Robot Vs Godzilla : Destroy the city
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Post by musicfan2000 on Oct 13, 2013 17:06:17 GMT 1
hopefully the change in engines next year will make a more competitive f1 The Red Bull is so far ahead, the only way they can slow it down is make it pull a trailer or something best car and design , adrian newey is a genious , the other teams have to be much better cause they made it too easy for red bulls this year also as a mclaren fan i want diresta to replace perez
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Post by paulgilb on Oct 15, 2013 23:05:11 GMT 1
Some stats/facts re Japan that I discovered/read:
4th win, 5th podium for Vettel at Suzuka - the most successful track for him in both respects.
Vettel has already scored more points in 2013 than he managed in 2012.
First time Grosjean has finished 3rd without Raikkonen finishing 2nd.
First non-mechanical retirements for a Marussia and a Mercedes in 2013. McLaren are now the only team without such a retirement.
All drivers have now outqualified their team-mates at least once this year.
Massa has now finished in every position from 3rd to 10th at least once this year.
Vettel would already have clinched the title under the pre-2003 scoring system (he would be 47 ahead with 40 remaining).
100th consecutive race with at least one German driver in the points (last race without was France 2008).
Both 1-2 finishes for Red Bull this year have come in a race where Vettel collided with another driver on the first lap (the other driver retiring partly as a result), led fewer than half the laps (the only 2 of his wins in which he has done so) and one driver in the field ignored team orders.
No front-row start for Hamilton in Suzuka (although he did have 2 poles in Fuji) - Buddh is the only other such current circuit.
First time this year that Hulkenberg has managed back-to-back top 10 starts (interesting that Gutierrez beat him to it).
Bottas's best dry qualifying.
Sutil's worst start since Brazil 2010.
The last time that Red Bull both locked out the front and scored a 1-2 was Korea 2012 (exactly a year ago to the week) - on both occasions Webber was on pole and Vettel won.
Vettel & Webber have managed 14 1-2's, equalling Prost & Senna at McLaren, but way behind M Schumacher & Barrichello at Ferrari (24).
First time this year that Vettel lost a place at the start.
First time Grosjean has led 'on merit' - all other lead laps were during pitstops.
Suzuka has never been won from the second row.
Alonso's 70th consecutive race without a mechanical DNF.
First time Hulkenberg has managed 4 consecutive points finishes.
Button's worst result at Suzuka.
Perez is the first driver since Mark Blundell not to manage a podium finish in his first 15 starts for McLaren.
Alonso has broken M Schumacher's record for most points scored in total (this stat is somewhat meaningless due to the changes in the points systems).
The last season in which we had to wait 15+ rounds for a rookie to score a point was in 1998, when Esteban Tuero and Tora Takagi both failed to score at all.
Gutierrez's points mean that Markus Winkelhock regains his status as the only driver (excluding Indy 500 drivers in the 1950s) ever to have led a GP and never scored a point.
First time since M Schumacher in 2000 that the Suzuka pole-sitter lost the lead at the start. On both occasions, the pole-sitter did end up finishing ahead of the lap 1 leader.
Vettel has finished on the podium in 50% of the races that he has started (58/116).
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Post by paulgilb on Oct 26, 2013 13:13:43 GMT 1
Grid for India:
1 Vettel 2 Rosberg 3 Hamilton 4 Webber 5 Massa 6 Raikkonen 7 Hulkenberg 8 Alonso 9 Perez 10 Button 11 Ricciardo 12 di Resta 13 Sutil 14 Vergne 15 Bottas 16 Gutierrez 17 Grosjean 18 Maldonado 19 Bianchi 20 van der Garde 21 Pic 22 Chilton
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Post by Robin on Oct 27, 2013 21:48:37 GMT 1
Boring today! Despite his wins, I seriously don't think Vettel will ever be considered an all time great until he proves he can be successful in a less competitive car. At the height of his success, Schumacher left Benetton and joined an under performing Ferrari and despite suffering a year or two of struggling he built the team back up again and made it successful. That's a true champion!
Watching the start of the race today, Vettel seemed to just accelerate away with ease on the first lap and that isn't down to driver skill. Adrian Newey is really the star of the team.
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Paddy
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Post by Paddy on Oct 27, 2013 22:07:22 GMT 1
Newey isn't that good, Webber's car has broken down almost as much as it has finished. Why they stopped Webber and not Vettel? Happened too often!
Anyway he is a good driver, we saw with BMW and Toro Rosso but he hasn't had anyone to compete against him. I mean Prost and Senna had battles and these have brought legendary stati for them but Vettel's place in the hall of fame will always be suspect until he has a season he has to battle wheel to wheel for 15 races and without team orders, or even denighing them.
We will see what 2014 regs bring, hopefully not more of the same.
An ex-F1 driver won a different title today, Robert Kubica win the WRC2 title in Spain, hopefully we'll see him in WRC1 next season and challenging so that we have a winner not called Seb!
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Post by Shireblogger on Oct 27, 2013 23:05:26 GMT 1
Congratulations to Seb. Four world championships don't happen by accident. He's made Webber, who is a really talented driver, look very second rate at times.
It seems to me that some people are only prepared to give credit to drivers who win by narrow margins. For my money, there is only one driver on the grid at the moment with as much talent as Vettel, and that is Alonso, who has done far better this season than he should in a pretty average car.
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Paddy
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Post by Paddy on Oct 27, 2013 23:40:58 GMT 1
Errrr, Vettel has more talent then Hamilton, who he never beat before F1? Hamilton in all series under F1 beat Vettel, so I'm sorry, to really prove talent there needs to be a very high series which is 1 make series. I'd like to see a side project series along with the F1 series, just for fun with larger grids, large engines, lightweight chasis' and no aero.
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Post by Panda on Oct 29, 2013 17:16:17 GMT 1
What happened before F1 means absolutely nothing. Hamilton is 2 years older and Vettel was still a kid when he came into F1. I seem to remember Vettel absolutely taking the p*ss out of Hamilton when he was still at Toro Rosso. I'm with SB - it's all about Vettel and Alonso. Hamilton isn't far behind but isn't as consistent.
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Post by Shireblogger on Oct 29, 2013 19:10:48 GMT 1
What happened before F1 means absolutely nothing. Hamilton is 2 years older and Vettel was still a kid when he came into F1. I seem to remember Vettel absolutely taking the p*ss out of Hamilton when he was still at Toro Rosso. I'm with SB - it's all about Vettel and Alonso. Hamilton isn't far behind but isn't as consistent. Completely agree. Hamilton isn't nearly as smart as Vettel. He can't think through an entire race, he can't manage any strategies at all apart from "go flat out all the time", and he still makes the occasional stupid error when tangling with people when he should know better. Over 1 lap, Hamilton and Vettel are similar calibre. Over a whole race, and a whole season, Vettel and Alonso are well ahead.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Oct 29, 2013 19:43:09 GMT 1
Very eloquently put SB. I'd put Raikkonen ahead of Hamilton too for the same reasons. Lewis' other main problem is that he's too emotional, and brings his outside life into his driving too much.
And for those who say that Vettel can't be considered an all time great yet, consider that he won his championships in an era which had a record number of world champions racing, most of whom had decent race and potentially championship winning cars at their disposal. He didn't have the benefit of limitless testing, tyres tailor made around his style, or better spec engines/parts. He ran the same equipment as his teammate (except for Britain 2010). He never benefitted from team orders. He never played dirty and deliberately crashed into a rival to win a championship.
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Paddy
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Post by Paddy on Oct 29, 2013 21:38:49 GMT 1
Malaysia?
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Oct 30, 2013 0:00:43 GMT 1
He didn't benefit from team orders in Malaysia. He was ordered to hold position in 2nd!
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Post by Paddy on Oct 30, 2013 0:14:46 GMT 1
Was more the played dirty. I think if he has a teammate who is equivalently fast with a car as reliable it'll be interesting to see what is capable of. Think he's also not seen as a great yet because he's never crashed. Schumacher crashed, prost n senna crashed. He may be a good driver but a bore as entertainment value. I'll even say he's a very good guy. He's witty, jokey, clever. But on track has no entertainment value. Anyway bring back no areo no gizmos just straight forward single seaters because btcc, v8's, Nascar and even indycar has a lot more entertainment value to them.
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Post by paulgilb on Oct 30, 2013 0:31:34 GMT 1
Even Paul di Resta managed to beat Vettel in F3 when they were team-mates in 2006!
Some stats/facts re India that I discovered/read elsewhere:
First time since 2009 that both titles have been decided at the same race.
Ferrari equal McLaren's record of 64 consecutive points-scoring races. Their last no-score was Britain 2010, which was also the last time that Alonso finished a race outside the points (excluding DNFs). Alonso's failure to score in India means he can keep his 1571 helmet for Abu Dhabi if he desires.
Impressive/worrying stat: Vettel (having just won his 4th title) is still younger than Alain Prost was when Prost won his first race.
Vettel has scored more points than any team this season (apart from Red Bull of course).
Vettel has always had an even number of World Championships to his name going into both the Abu Dhabi GP weekend and Brazilian GP weekend (he hadn't won either title in 2010, but had won 2 in 2011).
First time since 2001 that the champion clinched the title at the moment that he won the race (although both Raikkonen in 2007 and Vettel in 2010 won the races in which they clinched their titles, both needed other results to go their way as well).
Still no podium for Hamilton in India – the only such circuit on which he has raced.
First time somebody other than Vettel has led in India.
Last driver to manage 3 consecutive 3rd place finishes – Hamilton at the start of 2012.
Last time that the same 2 drivers managed 1st and 3rd in 3 consecutive races – M Schumacher and Barrichello in 2003 (Raikkonen was 2nd twice, Alonso once).
Last time that the same 2 drivers managed 1st and 3rd in 3 consecutive races with 3 different drivers finishing 2nd – Jones and Laffite in 1979 (Regazzoni, Villeneuve and Scheckter finished 2nd).
Last race-winner to be running as low as 17th at one point – Button in Canada 2011 (was running 21st). Last time in a dry race – Alonso in Singapore 2008 (was running 20th). Last time in a dry race with no safety cars – Watson in USA West 1983 (started 22nd with team-mate Lauda going from 23rd to 2nd).
3rd race in a row that Hulkenberg has qualified 7th – although this time it was not so lucky.
First time this season that Massa has beaten Alonso in a race where both finished.
Only the second time this season that a team has seen neither of its cars classified – the first being Force India in Malaysia.
Only the second time this season (after Monaco) that somebody other than Alonso, Raikkonen or Webber finished 2nd.
di Resta is the first driver to finish 8th 3 times this year. 7th is now the only points position in which no-one has finished more than twice this year.
Massa and di Resta (currently tied on 102 points) would also be tied (on 38 points) under the previous scoring system.
First time that a non-Red Bull driver has started on the front row in India.
Vettel’s 35th win with Red Bull – same number as Senna with McLaren.
10th win in October for Vettel.
Vettel’s 6th win in Asia in 2013 – he only managed 5 in 2011 and 2012.
Last time Massa finished ahead of Alonso on merit – China 2011.
Over half the laps that Massa has led since the start of 2012 were in this race (6/11).
First time since the start of 2011 that Alonso has gone 3 races without a podium.
First time since Abu Dhabi 2009 that Alonso finished a race without ever running inside the top 9.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Nov 2, 2013 13:02:41 GMT 1
Was more the played dirty. I think if he has a teammate who is equivalently fast with a car as reliable it'll be interesting to see what is capable of. Think he's also not seen as a great yet because he's never crashed. Schumacher crashed, prost n senna crashed. He may be a good driver but a bore as entertainment value. I'll even say he's a very good guy. He's witty, jokey, clever. But on track has no entertainment value. Anyway bring back no areo no gizmos just straight forward single seaters because btcc, v8's, Nascar and even indycar has a lot more entertainment value to them. I don't think he was dirty in Malaysia. He was on the quicker tyre, and didn't feel like he was getting the benefit of the strategy he was put on. Yes, he disobeyed a team order. But Massa did it the other weekend when he didn't let Alonso through. Was that dirty? What about the numerous times Webber didn't help Vettel over the years? Almost compromising his race in Brazil last year springs to mind. I am utterly convinced that if Senna had done what Vettel did that day he wouldn't have got the backlash. If Webber did it to Vettel he would have been a hero. So much of it comes from the context behind it. Vettel is unpopular because he wins a lot, so the Malaysia incident served to villify him. F1 is about the pinnacle of motorsport. So you have to respect someone doing a perfect job.
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Post by paulgilb on Nov 3, 2013 0:40:44 GMT 1
Grid for Abu Dhabi:
1 Webber 2 Vettel 3 Rosberg 4 Hamilton 5 Hulkenberg 6 Grosjean 7 Massa 8 Perez 9 Ricciardo 10 Alonso 11 di Resta 12 Button 13 Vergne 14 Maldonado 15 Bottas 16 Gutierrez 17 Sutil 18 van der Garde 19 Pic 20 Chilton 21 Bianchi (gearbox change) 22 Raikkonen (technical irregularity)
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