Sofie
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Post by Sofie on Nov 7, 2004 11:12:06 GMT 1
Sorry but this whole thing seems to be Jade's favourites - if she doesn't like them they are not in. Yeah, that's what it seems like...
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TheThorne
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Post by TheThorne on Nov 7, 2004 12:11:42 GMT 1
sigh!!
Can't some people think objectively without their personal biases. Eg. I nominated Metallica I only own a few singles by them, I don't regard myself a fan but for them not to b eincluded in the top 60 bands of all time would be sacrilege.
One of my favourite bands are No Doubt I love nearly everything they do, did I nominate them no, They have had 2 no1 ,gold albums, million sales worldwide and even critically popular but with all that I still didn't nominate them why?
Coz anyone can see they aon't one of the top 60 bands of all time, top 200 maybe but not top 60. Certain other people need to think the same.
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Post by Admin on Nov 7, 2004 12:21:53 GMT 1
Well said Mr Thorney, and sofie when did you turn into a parrott?
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Sofie
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Post by Sofie on Nov 7, 2004 12:37:29 GMT 1
Well said Mr Thorney, and sofie when did you turn into a parrott? Is there anything wrong with agreeing with someone now? Alarm ?
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Post by dandyhighwayman on Nov 7, 2004 12:39:25 GMT 1
Hmmmm.... was that an agreement from you Andy?
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TheThorne
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Post by TheThorne on Nov 7, 2004 12:55:03 GMT 1
Is there anything wrong with agreeing with someone now? Alarm ? The Alarm might make the top 64 bands from Wales lol
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Sofie
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Post by Sofie on Nov 7, 2004 12:55:44 GMT 1
The Alarm might make the top 64 bands from Wales lol But not this one?
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Post by winner on Nov 7, 2004 13:24:46 GMT 1
ANDY!!!!! How come you did not mention Take That?! Your idol Robbie the Poof will be very disappointed when he knows you forgot him
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TheThorne
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Post by TheThorne on Nov 7, 2004 13:24:54 GMT 1
that was a joke!
The Alarm wouldnt make the top 64 bands called The Alarm list either I don't think
and ceratinly not the top 64 bands with a singer called Mike Peters
But they would make the top 64 bands that wish they were U2 but have no talent
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Sofie
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Post by Sofie on Nov 7, 2004 13:27:14 GMT 1
But they would make the top 64 bands that wish they were U2 but have no talent
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frag
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Post by frag on Nov 7, 2004 14:00:17 GMT 1
People, people, space monsters...
You all make valid points. From your own point of view. But defining which are bands and which are groups is mainly down to genre, I feel. Groups are generally a 'popular music' thing - artists like ABBA, spice girls, boyzone, westlife, and many others simply do not fit into the 'bands' class because they can't really be compared to the likes of Oasis, Blur, Radiohead, Metallica, The Darkness or The Strokes. They would be groups. The reason why the Beatles are considered to be a 'band' is that they are SIMILAR in style to some of those I mentioned in the latter group.
And Earl Purple, if you do not stop being a hypocritical w**ker about such things (referring to your touting for cinerama, the wedding present, and any other band with more than three NM #1s to get in), you will be banned.
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Post by greendemon on Nov 7, 2004 14:14:52 GMT 1
i don't know why i did this, i really don't. all i am doing is making enemies, and i never wanted that i accept that the line between pop and anything else is very blurred, but i have to make a distinction SOMEWHERE otherwise this list would be impossible to make! can't you see that? pop is NOT a "dirty word", this has nothing to do with what is pop and what isn't. this is to do with how well bands are likely to perform against bands that are so different from them they are incomparable. the difference is STYLISTIC... NOT whether bands or groups sell more, NOT who plays their own instruments, and CERTAINLY NOT who i like! i am ONLY TRYING to come up with a good way of slimming down the list, and to make it a fairer competition (because that's what it IS, people, a COMPETITION... not a definitive list, which is what people seem to be thinking). I DON'T GIVE A TOSS about who plays whose instruments. i hope that is the last time i need to say that. i like blondie, but i'm still of the opinion that they are too stylistically different, and i would have preferred to have them with the groups. however, i will put them in because it looks very much as though it's the only way to shut you up. and who said anything about "rock" anyway? certainly not me. you've come up with that one yourself. i'm sure people are much more likely to have heard of joy division than the inspiral carpets so that just about puts paid to that... i would be worried, nay, DISTURBED if one of the top 64 bands of all time was someone i had never heard of. i don't know anything by them. perhaps they are a wonderful band. but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this list. personally i think the darkness are the most overrated and overpaid load of RUBBISH ever, and yet i still put them on the list until i remembered that they had only released one album. jade's favourites, eh? METHINKS NOT. glenn is clearly much better at doing this diplomatically. but i find it impossible to be diplomatic when certain people refuse to accept what i've been telling them for the past god knows how many pages. (thorne - thanks, yeah, echo & the bunnymen were mentioned, they will have a playoff place at least)
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Post by LittleChristmasTurkey on Nov 7, 2004 14:41:08 GMT 1
Just want to say keep up with the good work, and ignore those that are trying to belittle you. If people aren't happy with your top 64 selection, they don't have to vote.
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Post by Earl Purple on Nov 7, 2004 15:02:35 GMT 1
The point is not to belittle anyone.
Let me state some facts though.
- You cannot classify Abba with the Spice Girls and Boyzone. Maybe they do not fit into your "rock" category stylistically but to liken them to those others is insulting to Abba. Maybe there are no rock bands out there who claim Abba as their influence (not the case with Blondie). But those producers who decided to put together boy/girl bands like Steps probably had Abba-influence in creating such groups.
- You obviously do not know how many bands have been influenced by the Wedding Present. A lot. Probably even the Strokes, who you would like so much to include. I don't hear anything really in the Strokes that the Wedding Present hadn't already done at least 10 years earlier. In fact they made a whole compilation album of artists who claimed to be influenced by the Wedding Present, including Ash. And The Wedding Present, in 1991, were working with Steve Albini releasing the Seamonsters album several months before Nirvana reached the UK chart, thus introducing the new grunge sound before that band made it popular. Download "Dalliance" if you don't believe me. That they haven't done so well in the chart may be a reason for exclusion, but then you'd have to also exclude Joy Division, who were commercially less successful even than the Wedding Present were. Another thing about the Wedding Present has been their longevity - they were together 10 years, consistently progressing and releasing albums, and selling out tours. Although for the past 6 years David Gedge diversed into "Cinerama", they are now back as the Wedding Present, almost indicating that they've never been away. Cinerama maybe never sold many albums but they did sell out tours and were consistently placed highly in John Peel's Festive 50 (including a #1 placing in 2003). Or are you saying that after all the John Peel tributes and talking about his greatness, you are then going to snub the artists he has championed?
As for Inspiral Carpets, I don't think they should really be on the list, but they should be ahead of the Happy Mondays, who were pretty much one-album wonders. Madchester was a sensation, caused by the rave scene, and indie wanting to get in on the act, thus the bands at the Hacienda in Manchester. The Happy Mondays fitted in very well with that and yes, they were quite good.
Remember I was there at the time. You generally only know what you've been told.
As for the Darkness - maybe if they can manage at least one more successful album and preferably two, then we can consider putting them onto such a list in a future year.
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Post by greendemon on Nov 7, 2004 15:28:14 GMT 1
thank you for putting forward some proper factual evidence, neil. i appreciate that.
- i would like to reiterate that the main point of this list is to provide a basis for the competition that will follow. thus, one of the most important considerations must surely be to group artists in such a way that it is feasible to compare them with one another in an "x vs. y" sort of way. i never said that i was likening abba to proper bubblegum pop like boyzone and the spice girls just by putting them into the same group. and if it may be said that to put abba in with either category is to "liken" them to the other artists in that category, i don't know how it can be deemed mentally possible to categorise abba with some of the other artists in the "bands" group. the essence of the difference between the categories is, as i keep saying, stylistic. no matter how important abba may be, they are about as far a cry from dire straits, oasis, feeder, iron maiden, metallica et al. as it is possible to get. i shouldn't really have used the spice girls and boyzone as examples of "groups", but their sheer phenomenal popularity grants them legendary status. for this reason, although i recognise their importance in musical history, i will not put them with the bands.
- you argue a good case for the wedding present, and i have to admit i didn't know most of what you said before. i don't really know where you got the whole strokes thing from, though - i never mentioned them and they're not on the list at all. success in the charts is, however, vital - and although i'm not old enough to remember what the music scene was like a few decades ago, i'm not going to stand for any suggestion that i don't at least know all of what may deemed the top 64 bands ever. these bands must surely be ones who nearly everyone with a fair amount of music knowledge must know, or at least have heard of. i know nothing about the wedding present; you and sofie are literally the only people i know who have ever so much as mentioned them to me. they will get a playoff place but in terms of sales and popularity - which is really probably more important than influence - they probably aren't one of the 64 biggest bands ever.
i think i'm also in favour of leaving joy division out, partly because they were never that successful and partly because we have new order anyway. i propose lumping them together as one entry - i'm sure there will be more objection to that, but it's in the interests of keeping the list small. otherwise we will just have new order and no joy division. i know relatively little about the happy mondays, so they will also be confined to the playoffs.
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Post by Admin on Nov 7, 2004 17:04:18 GMT 1
Sorry, you're peeved about it all Jade, I think there has been total unfair criticism... And as for sofie, you seem to be agreeing with one person RATHER a lot lately...
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Hullboy
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Post by Hullboy on Nov 7, 2004 17:13:04 GMT 1
I'd second the inclusion of Echo & The Bunnymen.
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Sofie
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Post by Sofie on Nov 7, 2004 19:49:24 GMT 1
And as for sofie, you seem to be agreeing with one person RATHER a lot lately... Problem with that, Andy?
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Post by greendemon on Nov 7, 2004 21:32:42 GMT 1
thanks for the positive feedback, guys... if there are no more suggestions by midnight, i'll post the final list along with the playoff contenders, to which no further adjustment will be made.
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Post by Admin on Nov 7, 2004 22:09:30 GMT 1
thanks for the positive feedback, guys... if there are no more suggestions by midnight, i'll post the final list along with the playoff contenders, to which no further adjustment will be made. Yay Jade! Go Girl!
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