Tom
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Post by Tom on May 19, 2012 11:28:36 GMT 1
Can anybody see them winning a game? i can see us scraping second then getting knocked out by spain, not much better then failing to get out the group i guess I can see us getting beaten by France, then getting a point against Ukraine and Sweden. Apart from the fact that everything seems so rushed going into this tournament, when Reading have had a successful season in a tournament year England generally don't do well, so have adjusted my expectations accordingly (and i always thought it would be a struggle to get out of the group after Capello walked out when he did.) I'm actually looking forward to Euro 2012 more than I thought I would. Lower expectations are better, less chance of being disappointed and following Reading's success and the best PL season ever i'm ready for more football! Certainly beats the last Euros when with no England involvement and following Reading's relegation I hardly watched any of the tournament at all..
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Post by Maximo Mark on May 19, 2012 19:43:00 GMT 1
Michael Carrick is possibly the most under-appreciated player in the Premier League, he's been superb all season for Man Utd, he's a completely different player to the likes of Parker and Barry as he's more of a passer and ball retainer than they are and will keep possession far better than any of our other midfielders, which has always been one of our weak points, giving the ball away. He's been just as, if not more, crucial as Scholes to Man Utd yet if you believe the ridiculous hysteria in the media it's always because of Scholes when Man Utd win, and if they lose it's usually because of Carrick.
Hodgson has announced he's essentially 'retired' though, after being fed up of being a bit part player for over a decade, 22 caps when he's been in more squads than not must be pretty frustrating....
I'm not sure why anyone would want Lennon over Downing, we've already got one Aaron Lennon in Theo Walcott and Hodgson has said that this is essentially a squad which includes the players that got us here, despite his pathetic Liverpool record Downing got 3 assists in qualification, only Young got more, so he's certainly earned his part in England colours.
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Paddy
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Post by Paddy on May 19, 2012 23:29:25 GMT 1
Lennon is much faster down the wing and doesn't take 5 mins to decide how to cross. *oh and scores goals occasionally*
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Post by Panda on May 19, 2012 23:38:51 GMT 1
Lennon is much faster down the wing and doesn't take 5 mins to decide how to cross. *oh and scores goals occasionally* As Mark says, Lennon doesn't offer anything Walcott doesn't. At least Downing is a different type of player, though I'd have picked Adam Johnson over all of them.
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on May 20, 2012 0:46:20 GMT 1
lennon cross a ball? when was this? did you see him try and play left midfield, that went well. hasnt walcott got double figures this season? we have to many right sided players already so taking lennon would be taking the p*ss. downing is lucky johnson plays rm, walcott and ox both play right, milner and gerrard can also play right. might aswel just take 11 right midfielders cos lennon is 6th choice.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 20, 2012 9:54:57 GMT 1
I'm with Paddy on this one, guess i just find Lennon an exciting player to watch even if his final ball isn't always the best. They are the kind of wingers I tend to prefer. *Kebe*. He's also had a better season than Downing has for his club, Spurs missed him imo when he didn't play, although I wouldn't want him playing on the left. Must admit though I didn't realise that Downing had contributed so much in qualifying! Adam Johnson has impressed me more when playing for England than Downing.
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Post by Maximo Mark on May 20, 2012 11:58:07 GMT 1
I got that wrong, it's Young is the only player to provide more assists since the World Cup, that includes friendlies too so not sure how much he did contribute in qualifying. For me I'd always go with one of Lennon or Walcott, it would be pointless having both of them. As for Johnson vs. Downing, it's a tough one. Downing has had a very poor season for Liverpool but Johnson has barely played for Man City, 10 league starts I think, couldn't even get on the bench for their title decider. I think Johnson needs to move this summer.
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on May 20, 2012 14:14:41 GMT 1
lennon has missed most the second half of the season through injury, might aswel take bent and hargreaves aswel. walcott has 11 goals this year, lennon 4. walcott and lennon are roughly the same pace, if anything walcott is quicker, if anyone has a complaint over lennon it is his end product is worse than walcott, he is terrible at picking players out. im no fan of walcott, he is the most frustrating player there is but lennon is as much a clone as your going to get.
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Post by Shireblogger on May 25, 2012 10:22:38 GMT 1
John Ruddy out of the squad with a broken finger. You've got to feel sorry for the guy, given it was his first England squad appearance.
He's been replaced by 19 year-old Jack Butland, whose professional career amounts to 20-odd games with Cheltenham. I don't wish the guy any ill will, but is he really the 3rd best English 'keeper we have ?
Joe Hart I like. And Robert Green is much maligned, in my opinion. But if either of them gets injured, the 3rd choice 'keeper could really matter.
Answers on a postcard.
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on May 25, 2012 14:23:41 GMT 1
the simple answer is we have one world class keeper and 5 or 6 average, poor or young inexperienced keepers.
paul robinson should be englands number 2, but te way he was blamed for all englands problems and then spurs it was harsh, the last 3 year he has been as good as anyone
john ruddy i would say is englands 3rd choice, young, solid and impressive season in the top league
4th choice, rob green, cant command his area, glued to his line and prone to atleast 10 howlers a season, however he is a great shot stopper and has good reflexes but overall not england quality
5th choice stockdale at fulham, pretty similar to ruddy, had a good breakthrough season a few year ago but has gone backwards since, roy hodgson had him at fulham so must not rate him
6th choice ben foster, also retired, dosen't have the bottle for the big stage, proved it with man u and england time after time
then theres several kids, butland, loach and fielding come to mind
and 10th, scott carson, think he is in turkey now, best place for him, well out the way
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Paddy
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Post by Paddy on May 25, 2012 15:25:01 GMT 1
Stockdale is better then Green these days, nothing to do with Ipswich/Norwich connections but we had him and Fulham took him back from his good form in autumn and winter.
Carson is with Buspokor i believe.
Where is Joe Lewis name these days? Playing for Cardiff, who finished only just behind WHU! And yes he was a Norwich graduate, but still think he could make a good #2 keeper.
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Post by Shireblogger on May 25, 2012 16:08:41 GMT 1
As 3rd choice for a major championships, why not take an experienced pro instead ? My nomination would be Southampton's Kelvin Davis, who has just completed a superb season. Given his age, he's less likely to be overawed if he had to come on as a substitute in a crucial game than Butland.
It is a disgrace the way the media hounded Robinson out of the squad. But, of course, our tabloid sports journalists like nothing better than an England defeat.
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Paddy
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Post by Paddy on May 25, 2012 16:46:09 GMT 1
Kelvin Davies needs to have improved, he blundered too often at Portman Road.
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Post by Maximo Mark on May 26, 2012 10:56:11 GMT 1
Stockdale is better then Green these days, nothing to do with Ipswich/Norwich connections but we had him and Fulham took him back from his good form in autumn and winter. Carson is with Buspokor i believe. Where is Joe Lewis name these days? Playing for Cardiff, who finished only just behind WHU! And yes he was a Norwich graduate, but still think he could make a good #2 keeper. Joe Lewis only signed for Cardiff yesterday. He's spend the majority of this season sat on Peterborough's bench, fit all season but only played 11 times behind Paul Jones, he will be a Championship benchwarmer again next season as he won't get in ahead of Marshall. I'm all for having Jack Butland in the squad. He's the Under 21 keeper and realistically he's the only English goalkeeper who's going to have a chance of dislodging Joe Hart in the next 5-6 years so it makes sense for him to go to a tournament now. It's not as if he'll be used and if he is it means we'll have been dreadfully unlucky, and it's not like any of our other options standout much more. I don't know what people have been moaning about, it would be interesting to analyse all major international competitions with three keepers in squads and see how many times all three have HAD to be used because of injury/suspension, I can't imagine it will be many, if any at all! Do people still rate Paul Robinson? Don't see him as any loss any more. No better than Rob Green. Relegated from the Premier League with the worst goalkeeping stats in the league. The fact that people consider that to be a loss shows how dreadful our goalkeeping options are. If I had to rank our keepers I'd say: Hart > (Foster) > Ruddy > Green > Stockdale > Forster > Carson > (Robinson) > Fielding I haven't seen Butland play but everyone who has say he has a superb future in the game and is much better at that age then all of the above!
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Post by Maximo Mark on May 26, 2012 11:10:08 GMT 1
Team for tonight;
Green; Jones, Jagielka, Lescott, Baines; Parker, Gerrard, Milner, Young, Downing; Carroll
Subs: Hart, Butland, Kelly, Barry, Henderson, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, A. Johnson, Defoe
Injured: G. Johnson, Welbeck
Not used, joining up with the squad tomorrow: Cahill, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Sturridge, Rooney
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vastar iner
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Post by vastar iner on May 26, 2012 11:49:06 GMT 1
One point with Butland is that he is working at Blues with Dave Watson, who has just joined the England keeping staff. And of course Watson helped turn Joe Hart into the monster in goal he is and also knows about Ben Foster. Foster incidentally retired from international football for the good of his health - he has back problems and is having to ration his career as best he can. Hence him going to Albion last year on loan and saving a dozen games.
And let's face it, third choice goalie is the least important squad position (wasn't Niall Quinn Ireland's some years back?). May as well take someone who may well be in the next few tournaments...
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on May 26, 2012 13:59:57 GMT 1
interesting starting line up, young and downing both lm for their clubs, both starting, johnson, chamberlain and walcott all rm for their clubs, all on the bench
im not sure how they will set up with that team, i cant even figure out a formation
---------------Green--------------- Jones--Jagielka--Lescott--Baines ---------------Parker-------------- ----Gerrard---------- Milner Young------------------Downing -------------Carroll--------------
or
---------------Green--------------- Jones--Jagielka--Lescott--Baines
--------Parker-----Gerrard------- Milner-----------------------Downing ---------------Young---------------
---------------Carroll--------------
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Post by Maximo Mark on May 26, 2012 14:26:34 GMT 1
I would imagine it will almost certainly be the second of those two, with Young in the hole and Downing wide.
What I really want to happen in this match is for Carroll to convert a couple of Downing crosses, if only to annoy Liverpool fans!
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Post by Razzle Dazzle on May 26, 2012 15:00:36 GMT 1
yeah i think so aswel, in that case its a weird decision to start milner ahead of johnson, walcott and oxlade-c
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Post by Maximo Mark on May 26, 2012 21:49:16 GMT 1
Well that was a performance we've seen on many occasions before. Carrick should be starting, certainly over Barry, woeful.
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