rewardman
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*rock n roll juvenile*
Posts: 33,071
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Post by rewardman on Jul 14, 2024 23:56:49 GMT 1
Spain were worthy winners. Consistently the best team throughout the entire tournament.
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Post by Shireblogger on Jul 15, 2024 7:50:59 GMT 1
Spain were worthy winners. Consistently the best team throughout the entire tournament. Correct. Overall, a rather disappointing tournament. With the majority of the squads of all the participant nations playing in the Big 5 leagues, I wonder whether this has unified tactics and levelled talent to the point to the point that many teams neutralise each other. England needed a couple of flashes of brilliance to reach the final, and a couple of the goals they conceded along the way were also flashes of brilliance. Other than that, England's matches were a bit of a grind for both teams. Similar for France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal and many of the other traditionally dominant football nations, except Spain, who were a class above the rest. Possibly not coincidental that some of the best matches - Turkey v Austria springs to mind - were between countries who had already matched or exceeded expectations, and seemed less constrained by rigid tactics.
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Post by Shireblogger on Jul 15, 2024 8:23:35 GMT 1
My England player rankings for the entire tournament:-
Jordan Pickford : 9 - didn't put a foot wrong, saved a crucial penalty, constantly trying to motivate & organise the team
Aaron Ramsdale : N/A
Dean Henderson : N/A
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Kyle Walker : 8 - solid in defence, a threat when he attacked, but didn't overlap often enough
Luke Shaw : 8 - I thought he was excellent in the final; if he'd been fit earlier, England would have looked better
Kieran Trippier : 7 - not bad, for someone who was always out of position
John Stones : 8 - really assured in defence, but didn't move into midfield enough (as he does so well for Man City)
Marc Guehi : 9 - the most consistent England player in the tournament, and hopefully our rock for the next 10 years
Ezri Konsa : 8 - had a good game when deputising for Guehi
Joe Gomez : N/A
Lewis Dunk : N/A
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Declan Rice : 6 - good in defence, poor in attack, gave the ball away too often
Conor Gallagher : 7 - worked hard whenever he was called upon
Trent Alexander Arnold : 3 - a victim of tactics that were always hard to understand
Kobbie Mainoo : 5 - I simply don't get why everyone was raving about him, the master of the short sideways pass to put a team mate in trouble, played well for a 19 year old, but not a patch on Lamine Yamal
Jude Bellingham : 4 - a very good first half in the first match, and, obviously, the tournament saving overhead kick; otherwise he was anonymous, and not a patch on the version enjoyed by Real fans
Bukayo Saka : 8 - England's most consistent, and consistently threatening, creative player; would have looked superb with better options ahead of him
Phil Foden : 3 - did nothing of note during the tournament, never took a threatening free-kick or corner, should have been substituted earlier in almost every match
Cole Palmer : 8 - should have replaced Foden at half-time in every match; great goal in the final
Anthony Gordon : 2 - the pundits regularly clamoured for him, but I couldn't see why based on few minutes on the pitch
Adam Wharton : N/A
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Harry Kane : 2 - never got in to any of the games; should have been dropped
Ollie Watkins : 8 - England's biggest threat; should have replaced Kane in the starting line-up, and would have made England a much more attacking and exciting team
Ebereche Eze : 6 - good value when he was on the pitch, but not quite up to the standard of Watkins or Palmer
Ivan Toney : 6 - hard to judge with so little game time, but had a crucial impact in the Slovakia game
Jarrod Bowen : 3 - limited game time, but rather anonymous when he was on the pitch
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Gareth Southgate : 6.5 - another final which is a magnificent achievement, but also the luckiest manager in the tournament, given the two very narrow escapes; defence always looked sound; attack always looked weak until subs came on; if the subs made such a difference, why didn't he give them more time ?
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Post by Earl Purple on Jul 15, 2024 9:20:02 GMT 1
This was a bit like World Cup 2002 in a sense - one team was way better than all the others, and the team that ended up as runner-up was simply the best one in the other half of the draw who didn't have to play the big one along the way. So in 2002 England were possibly better than Germany but we met Brazil in the quarter final and they did in the final. In this tournament, Germany were probably better than us, but they met Spain in the quarter final and we didn't meet them until the final.
The impact of playing a summer tournament after a long season and in particular the players that the "big" clubs who played in those long seasons - maybe a reason why Guehi who plays for Crystal Palace was one of the more energetic players, having not had a long season with a big club? We've seen that before - Rooney in 2004 for example, after a very poor season for Everton.
It is the way it is. Our best players are most likely to be playing for big clubs and may be tired at the end of the season. A manager has to judge that when picking the team, and also when choosing whether to sub.
Either pick the best system to suit the best players, or pick a good system then the best players to pick it. Harry Kane did end up our biggest scorer, and I think if he'd been on the pitch when we hit the bar and then missed the rebound near the end, he's the kind of player who was more likely to score from that situation. He also had a shot blocked in the first half. Harry Kane had a good season at Bayern Munich but then they as a team had a relatively poor season, failing to win Bundesliga, although they did knock Arsenal out of the Champions League.
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Post by ManicKangaroo on Jul 16, 2024 11:06:50 GMT 1
Not unexpectedly, Southgate has announced his resignation
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Post by smokeyb on Jul 16, 2024 12:27:24 GMT 1
I suppose Southgate got England back to being a relatively successful team again, in that they reached finals and semi finals once again, most teams would accept that. The problem I guess is would he ever get them on the top step to win something, I'm not sure he would.
Will the next manager achieve that, we will see.
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Post by Shireblogger on Jul 16, 2024 12:28:25 GMT 1
Yes, he's been signalling that for a long time, and I'm sure he would have resigned no matter how well or badly England had performed.
He's been brilliant. No two ways about it. And far too often he's been treated shabbily by the press and by supporters.
Just look back through this thread, and you'll see people saying he should be sacked at half-time because England weren't thrashing a high quality rival nation.
Thank you Gareth. You've brought many highly enjoyable evenings into my living room.
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Post by Panda on Jul 16, 2024 13:23:20 GMT 1
It's the right time for him to go. He's done an amazing job as England manager. I haven't seen an England team so passionate about representing their country since the mid 90s under Venables. Tactically, the question marks were always there, particular during games themselves and what happens under the next manager may well highlight that even further. But history will look back on Southgate's England tenure favourably, much as it does with Bobby Robson's (who was absolutely pilloried during his time as manager, and whose record is worse than Southgate's).
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Post by Ligerswubsme007 on Jul 16, 2024 13:43:13 GMT 1
To right got boot won good
Ligers kool
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Pablo
Member
*With Great Power comes Great Responsibilty*
Posts: 8,449
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Post by Pablo on Jul 16, 2024 14:40:21 GMT 1
As soon as the dust settles, agree with Panda that Southgate will be remembered fondly as someone who changed the fortunes of England and set the foundations for someone to pick up - after the misery of 2016 and the controversy of Allardyce's tenure.
Yes, there is the obvious achievements - the 2 Euro finals and a WC semi finals. However people forget the little things too - practising and installing confidence in penalty shootouts, creating a team cohesion that not easy in the national setup and adapting to generational changes of the game and personnel (perhaps not so tactically) to name a few.
The problem you have now with the next England manager is Southgate has set expectations of a nation high. So there will be little room for error.
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Post by o on Jul 16, 2024 15:35:35 GMT 1
I'm going to close this thread and move the england manager odds post into the football thread. But I must just say Frank Lampard
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